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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ahnehnois" data-source="post: 6155696" data-attributes="member: 17106">I think it does more to confuse and mislead DMs than help them, regardless of intent. You seem to agree...However, I think that the estimates aren't correct because the game experience is not standardized enough to make those kinds of estimates. Different party makeups and player choices, different in-game situations, different houserules and assumptions, there are so many things that can affect how a party of four Level X characters will interact with a CR Y monster than in my opinion the CR is useless.It's a lot easier to tell how dangerous monsters are now that attack bonuses and AC and saves and such work the same way. If you're using an SoD, it's very easy to know what the chance of failure is. If you're using conventional attacks, it's easier to calculate the likelihood of hits.That said, if anyone did make that complaint, I still think it's BS. It's not the game designers job to control the PC mortality rate. Rules don't kill PCs, DMs do.Okay so far...Wait, what? That's just absurd. The base encounter is four against one, so easy that it's barely worth rolling dice. A CR 5 creature that meets a party of level 5 characters should run for its life.Deviating from that ludicrous baseline doesn't say anything other than that the DM is doing his job and deciding for himself what creatures are out there and how they behave. It certainly doesn't suggest that all the PCs are about to die.I don't use CRs/ELs, but if I did calculate them, I'm quite sure that most of my encounters are above what the XP charts even consider...and I haven't killed a PC in at least fifteen sessions (probably more like twenty). I routinely place a party of three PCs against three NPCs of equal or higher level than them, or one NPC five or six levels higher, or a monster with a CR five or ten higher than their level; and that's before I trick these encounters out with customized statistics, equipment, allies, and situational factors. Then again, I also run an occasional one below level as a gag or to break up tension. What I don't do is follow or even refer to the guidelines.Organized play is kind of its own animal, and the considerations are different. I think it's safe to say that anything that I or anyone else says about DMing does not apply to that situation. I personally don't much care what the rules of Living Greyhawk are/were (or what it is at all).Can't say I ever saw that as being the point of D&D. In fact, I find that statement contradictory. To me, the definition of "heroic" does not include slaughtering helpless opponents or accomplishing tasks that do not involve meaningful risks.Those are separate considerations. I don't use CRs/ELs/XP, but my campaigns range from bloodbaths to PC victory parades. The point is that the CR/EL system is designed to replace a part of the DM's job (deciding what challenges the characters should face), but I don't think that aspect of DMing can be adequately replaced, and I don't see any reason to try.</blockquote>

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