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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
The ethics of ... death
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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 6157049" data-attributes="member: 22779"><p>No, of course it's not a foregone conclusion. Failing your saving throw isn't either. However, you're also presuming a single snake vs an entire party. This being AD&D, normal snakes appear in groups of 1-6. </p><p></p><p>But, that's the point - it's rocket tag. Either we kill the snake before it gets a chance to make some hits, or we almost guarantee a fatality. Whereas with a normal monster, given the EXACT same setup, the chances of fatality are far, far less.</p><p></p><p>Put it another way. Single hit is still about 50:50 PC death. Single hit with a d8 weapon cannot even drop the PC into the negatives. How's that for being overpowered? Your PC's best chances of survival are 50:50. </p><p></p><p>It's interesting though, that you bring up 2nd Edition D&D, in regards to poison. Here's what the 2e PHB says about Poison:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yet, according to the rules, any poisonous snake that bites a PC has about a 50/50 chance of instantly killing that PC. The text doesn't match the rules. Sure, while the priest might have a bit better chance of shrugging off poison, everyone else is worse than 50:50 until 9th (for fighters - everyone else is worse until well into double digit levels), so, in most parties, almost everyone has worse than a 50:50 chance of dying from any poison effect.</p><p></p><p>So, spread it out over time then if you don't like it in a single encounter. Hit by three poison effects between 1st and 5th level and you're almost guaranteed (about 90%) of dying. And you don't get neutralize poison until 7th. </p><p></p><p>Oh, and against the medusa, no one gets better than 50:50 until the fighter at 9th level. So, again, party of 4 PC's faces a medusa and the chance of PC fatality is very, very close to 100%.</p><p></p><p>See, this is why I don't buy the "oh, it's all a matter of personal preference" argument. The math just doesn't work. It doesn't do what proponents want it to do - ie. make combat more random - all it does is yank the chance of PC death way too high.</p><p></p><p>You'd get exactly the same effect by tripling the damage output of any monster.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 6157049, member: 22779"] No, of course it's not a foregone conclusion. Failing your saving throw isn't either. However, you're also presuming a single snake vs an entire party. This being AD&D, normal snakes appear in groups of 1-6. But, that's the point - it's rocket tag. Either we kill the snake before it gets a chance to make some hits, or we almost guarantee a fatality. Whereas with a normal monster, given the EXACT same setup, the chances of fatality are far, far less. Put it another way. Single hit is still about 50:50 PC death. Single hit with a d8 weapon cannot even drop the PC into the negatives. How's that for being overpowered? Your PC's best chances of survival are 50:50. It's interesting though, that you bring up 2nd Edition D&D, in regards to poison. Here's what the 2e PHB says about Poison: Yet, according to the rules, any poisonous snake that bites a PC has about a 50/50 chance of instantly killing that PC. The text doesn't match the rules. Sure, while the priest might have a bit better chance of shrugging off poison, everyone else is worse than 50:50 until 9th (for fighters - everyone else is worse until well into double digit levels), so, in most parties, almost everyone has worse than a 50:50 chance of dying from any poison effect. So, spread it out over time then if you don't like it in a single encounter. Hit by three poison effects between 1st and 5th level and you're almost guaranteed (about 90%) of dying. And you don't get neutralize poison until 7th. Oh, and against the medusa, no one gets better than 50:50 until the fighter at 9th level. So, again, party of 4 PC's faces a medusa and the chance of PC fatality is very, very close to 100%. See, this is why I don't buy the "oh, it's all a matter of personal preference" argument. The math just doesn't work. It doesn't do what proponents want it to do - ie. make combat more random - all it does is yank the chance of PC death way too high. You'd get exactly the same effect by tripling the damage output of any monster. [/QUOTE]
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