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The evolution of Charisma and Wisdom
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<blockquote data-quote="ZombieRoboNinja" data-source="post: 6080883" data-attributes="member: 54843"><p>I actually hadn't read the new definitions of wisdom and charisma, but I have to say they're my favorite ever. They do a great job of explaining exactly what aspects are important to being good at the things those ability scores are used for in-game.</p><p></p><p>For example, the most "charismatic" people in real life would probably be politicians, preachers, cult leaders, etc. To be great at those things, you don't need to be particularly attractive (though it can help), but you DO need a sense of purpose and a forceful personality. And it makes perfect sense that on top of influencing others, these qualities would help you resist magical mind control, and would make you more effective at channeling magical energies that threaten to overwhelm you (like a sorcerer).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Huh? The only part of the 1e definition that isn't necessarily included in the 5e definition is attractiveness, which I think is great because attractiveness isn't a necessary part of any D&D skill, except maybe Profession: Modeling. You can persuade, etc. without being pretty. Whether your character to be attractive or ugly is up to you, like gender and eye color, I'd say.</p><p></p><p>As for wisdom, the new definition makes WAY more sense to me than any previous definition. This way wisdom covers spot/listen, but also insight (your ability to read people) and divine attunement (your "sixth sense" that lets you get closer to the supernatural). And it maps on to reality fairly well IME - my wife, for example, is a super-attentive person, which makes her great at reading people, but also great at spotting tiny details or hearing soft sounds (despite the fact that her vision and hearing aren't physiologically any better than mine).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Wisdom means being attuned to your situation enough that it's not easy to trick or fleece you: to that degree, it covers judgment, wile, and willpower. But charisma gets to take over parts of "willpower," because some situations (like mind control effects) are more about directly challenging your sense of purpose, while others (like charm effects) are about misleading that sense of purpose. So an archetypical blackguard might have a high charisma but low wisdom, since they're dedicated and self-assured but easy to tempt or corrupt. (This mirrors the mechanical distinction they're having to make in 5e by splitting the Will save into Cha and Wis and even Int saves.)</p><p></p><p>"Enlightenment" is a very vague term that we're probably better off without. If you include "enlightenment" as a criterion of high wisdom, then why are there so many high-Wis clerics of greedy or evil gods? If, on the other hand, you take "wisdom" to mean "sensitivity" or "attunement," it makes perfect sense for someone who is powerfully attuned with a dark god to have high Wisdom. And shouldn't a good-aligned barbarian or whatever be able to be spiritually enlightened despite having a low Wisdom score?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ZombieRoboNinja, post: 6080883, member: 54843"] I actually hadn't read the new definitions of wisdom and charisma, but I have to say they're my favorite ever. They do a great job of explaining exactly what aspects are important to being good at the things those ability scores are used for in-game. For example, the most "charismatic" people in real life would probably be politicians, preachers, cult leaders, etc. To be great at those things, you don't need to be particularly attractive (though it can help), but you DO need a sense of purpose and a forceful personality. And it makes perfect sense that on top of influencing others, these qualities would help you resist magical mind control, and would make you more effective at channeling magical energies that threaten to overwhelm you (like a sorcerer). Huh? The only part of the 1e definition that isn't necessarily included in the 5e definition is attractiveness, which I think is great because attractiveness isn't a necessary part of any D&D skill, except maybe Profession: Modeling. You can persuade, etc. without being pretty. Whether your character to be attractive or ugly is up to you, like gender and eye color, I'd say. As for wisdom, the new definition makes WAY more sense to me than any previous definition. This way wisdom covers spot/listen, but also insight (your ability to read people) and divine attunement (your "sixth sense" that lets you get closer to the supernatural). And it maps on to reality fairly well IME - my wife, for example, is a super-attentive person, which makes her great at reading people, but also great at spotting tiny details or hearing soft sounds (despite the fact that her vision and hearing aren't physiologically any better than mine). Wisdom means being attuned to your situation enough that it's not easy to trick or fleece you: to that degree, it covers judgment, wile, and willpower. But charisma gets to take over parts of "willpower," because some situations (like mind control effects) are more about directly challenging your sense of purpose, while others (like charm effects) are about misleading that sense of purpose. So an archetypical blackguard might have a high charisma but low wisdom, since they're dedicated and self-assured but easy to tempt or corrupt. (This mirrors the mechanical distinction they're having to make in 5e by splitting the Will save into Cha and Wis and even Int saves.) "Enlightenment" is a very vague term that we're probably better off without. If you include "enlightenment" as a criterion of high wisdom, then why are there so many high-Wis clerics of greedy or evil gods? If, on the other hand, you take "wisdom" to mean "sensitivity" or "attunement," it makes perfect sense for someone who is powerfully attuned with a dark god to have high Wisdom. And shouldn't a good-aligned barbarian or whatever be able to be spiritually enlightened despite having a low Wisdom score? [/QUOTE]
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