Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
The Evolution of the Monster Stat Block
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Charlaquin" data-source="post: 9173440" data-attributes="member: 6779196"><p>Here are my thoughts on each style:</p><p></p><p><strong>OD&D</strong></p><p>Having one chart with <em>all</em> the monster stats seems convenient if there are few enough monster types for that to actually be practical, but in retrospect we can safely say that was never a sustainable approach. And even with a pretty small list, that table is hard to read without column and row lines, or at least alternating row shading! Having the stats and the lore in different places also seems like a pain. I’m sure it’s nostalgic for some, but I think this is pretty clearly the least efficient “stat block” design - unsurprisingly, since it was the first attempt.</p><p></p><p><strong>AD&D and B/X</strong></p><p>Much more user-friendly, and while the visual design doesn’t speak to me personally, it is certainly distinctive, which makes for some high-mileage nostalgia fuel. The game-statistical information is easily accessible, there’s a solid amount of lore while still leaving room for the DM’s imagination to flesh it out further, and there’s accompanying artwork that while not always what I would call beautiful, has undeniable charm. I do wish the monsters themselves had more unique mechanical features to make them feel distinct in play, but that’s a feature of the rule system, not the stat block itself. My only critiques of the actual stat blocks are that I think the font is too small, and I wish the stat line descriptors were bold instead of (or in addition to being) all-caps.</p><p></p><p><strong>2e</strong></p><p>Design-wise, very similar to the AD&D style (for understandable reasons). The statistics are more user-friendly with more efficient use of the page space and the addition of row shading and lines to make them more readable, all of which I really like. But personally, this loses a lot of the charm for me, without being enough of a usability upgrade to be worth that trade. The artwork still isn’t as pretty to me as it would be in later editions, but it’s also not as <em>janky</em> as in 1e, so for me it ends up falling into a rather uninspiriring middle-ground. And while there’s a lot more lore, it’s kinda <em>too much</em> lore in my opinion, and without EGG’s extremely distinctive writing style, it too falls into the unfortunate space between the lovable jank of its predecessor and the polish of its successors. I can certainly see why this would be someone’s favorite, but for me it falls in second-to-last place, just above OD&D.</p><p></p><p><strong>3.Xe</strong></p><p>As stated in my previous post, this stat-block is the hands-down winner for me in terms of pure aesthetics. The font choices strike the perfect balance between readability and charm for me, and the little design touches like the background lines and the text being shaped around the art (which is also in color now!) <em>really</em> does it for me. I’m sure there’s a lot of nostalgia bias coming in here, but looking at this stat block just makes me viscerally feel like I’m sitting down for some good old-fashioned pen-and-paper tabletop gaming, while still being very visyally clean and polished. With all that glowing praise out of the way though… I actually kinda hate this as an actual game tool. The use of page space is <em>criminally</em> ineffecticient, which is made all the more disappointing after that having been 2e’s biggest selling point. I don’t know if this was intentional 1e nostalgia bait or what, but come on, can we please get some coluns back in here? And the lore info is somehow both less in-depth and more space-hungry than 2e’s. I will say, I appreciate the inclusion of a paragraph on how the creature typically behaves in combat, but otherwise, this stat block sacrifices all utility as a <em>gameplay</em> aid for the sake of making it nicer to <em>read</em>. Which just kinda encapsulates my feelings about 3e as a whole. Overall, I’d rank this one above the previous three, but the nostalgia goggles are definitely a major handicap here.</p><p></p><p><strong>4e</strong></p><p>In an absolute 180 from 3e, this stat block is purely utilitarian, at the cost of being pretty visually unappealing. Now, personally I value gameplay utility higher, so I <em>do</em> like this stat block more than 3e’s. But good golly is there ever room for improvement. Despite having the most efficient layout by <em>far</em>, it’s ironically pretty hard to tell what the heck this monster does at a glance, in part because the text is <em>miniscule</em> and in part because it does so dang <em>much</em>. Those things are obviously related of course, and while I do appreciate that 4e’s monsters have a lot of interesting things they can do, giving them all very distinctive gameplay feel, some monsters definitely take it too far. I think 4e’s stat block is at its best on relatively simple monsters, with only one or two special actions. Which is really unfortunate, because 4e’s actual monsters are at their best when they have a lot of special actions. If we could just combine the aesthetic appeal of 3e with the design excellence and gameplay utility of 4e, we’d be in the money.</p><p></p><p><strong>5e</strong></p><p>Well, an attempt was clearly made to do exactly that. But for me personally, it falls short of the mark. I can see what the 5e designers were going for, and to their credit this is easily the most <em>readable</em> stat block to date, which I truly do appreciate. It’s <em>usable</em>, but the monsters aren’t all that interesting to <em>use</em> (although I will say I think they’ve made great strides towards making them more interesting in play lately!) And where 3e was obviously trying to fake being hand-drawn and 4e was made for a VTT and it showed, 5e looks like it was trying to fake being made for a VTT. I must begrudgingly concede that I do think it’s the best overall stat block yet, I just wish it wasn’t so <em>sterile</em>. Is it too much to ask for a stat block that keeps 5e’s usability but brings back the lo-fi charm of pre-4e D&D?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Charlaquin, post: 9173440, member: 6779196"] Here are my thoughts on each style: [B]OD&D[/B] Having one chart with [I]all[/I] the monster stats seems convenient if there are few enough monster types for that to actually be practical, but in retrospect we can safely say that was never a sustainable approach. And even with a pretty small list, that table is hard to read without column and row lines, or at least alternating row shading! Having the stats and the lore in different places also seems like a pain. I’m sure it’s nostalgic for some, but I think this is pretty clearly the least efficient “stat block” design - unsurprisingly, since it was the first attempt. [B]AD&D and B/X[/B] Much more user-friendly, and while the visual design doesn’t speak to me personally, it is certainly distinctive, which makes for some high-mileage nostalgia fuel. The game-statistical information is easily accessible, there’s a solid amount of lore while still leaving room for the DM’s imagination to flesh it out further, and there’s accompanying artwork that while not always what I would call beautiful, has undeniable charm. I do wish the monsters themselves had more unique mechanical features to make them feel distinct in play, but that’s a feature of the rule system, not the stat block itself. My only critiques of the actual stat blocks are that I think the font is too small, and I wish the stat line descriptors were bold instead of (or in addition to being) all-caps. [B]2e[/B] Design-wise, very similar to the AD&D style (for understandable reasons). The statistics are more user-friendly with more efficient use of the page space and the addition of row shading and lines to make them more readable, all of which I really like. But personally, this loses a lot of the charm for me, without being enough of a usability upgrade to be worth that trade. The artwork still isn’t as pretty to me as it would be in later editions, but it’s also not as [I]janky[/I] as in 1e, so for me it ends up falling into a rather uninspiriring middle-ground. And while there’s a lot more lore, it’s kinda [I]too much[/I] lore in my opinion, and without EGG’s extremely distinctive writing style, it too falls into the unfortunate space between the lovable jank of its predecessor and the polish of its successors. I can certainly see why this would be someone’s favorite, but for me it falls in second-to-last place, just above OD&D. [B]3.Xe[/B] As stated in my previous post, this stat-block is the hands-down winner for me in terms of pure aesthetics. The font choices strike the perfect balance between readability and charm for me, and the little design touches like the background lines and the text being shaped around the art (which is also in color now!) [I]really[/I] does it for me. I’m sure there’s a lot of nostalgia bias coming in here, but looking at this stat block just makes me viscerally feel like I’m sitting down for some good old-fashioned pen-and-paper tabletop gaming, while still being very visyally clean and polished. With all that glowing praise out of the way though… I actually kinda hate this as an actual game tool. The use of page space is [I]criminally[/I] ineffecticient, which is made all the more disappointing after that having been 2e’s biggest selling point. I don’t know if this was intentional 1e nostalgia bait or what, but come on, can we please get some coluns back in here? And the lore info is somehow both less in-depth and more space-hungry than 2e’s. I will say, I appreciate the inclusion of a paragraph on how the creature typically behaves in combat, but otherwise, this stat block sacrifices all utility as a [I]gameplay[/I] aid for the sake of making it nicer to [I]read[/I]. Which just kinda encapsulates my feelings about 3e as a whole. Overall, I’d rank this one above the previous three, but the nostalgia goggles are definitely a major handicap here. [B]4e[/B] In an absolute 180 from 3e, this stat block is purely utilitarian, at the cost of being pretty visually unappealing. Now, personally I value gameplay utility higher, so I [I]do[/I] like this stat block more than 3e’s. But good golly is there ever room for improvement. Despite having the most efficient layout by [I]far[/I], it’s ironically pretty hard to tell what the heck this monster does at a glance, in part because the text is [I]miniscule[/I] and in part because it does so dang [I]much[/I]. Those things are obviously related of course, and while I do appreciate that 4e’s monsters have a lot of interesting things they can do, giving them all very distinctive gameplay feel, some monsters definitely take it too far. I think 4e’s stat block is at its best on relatively simple monsters, with only one or two special actions. Which is really unfortunate, because 4e’s actual monsters are at their best when they have a lot of special actions. If we could just combine the aesthetic appeal of 3e with the design excellence and gameplay utility of 4e, we’d be in the money. [B]5e[/B] Well, an attempt was clearly made to do exactly that. But for me personally, it falls short of the mark. I can see what the 5e designers were going for, and to their credit this is easily the most [I]readable[/I] stat block to date, which I truly do appreciate. It’s [I]usable[/I], but the monsters aren’t all that interesting to [I]use[/I] (although I will say I think they’ve made great strides towards making them more interesting in play lately!) And where 3e was obviously trying to fake being hand-drawn and 4e was made for a VTT and it showed, 5e looks like it was trying to fake being made for a VTT. I must begrudgingly concede that I do think it’s the best overall stat block yet, I just wish it wasn’t so [I]sterile[/I]. Is it too much to ask for a stat block that keeps 5e’s usability but brings back the lo-fi charm of pre-4e D&D? [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
The Evolution of the Monster Stat Block
Top