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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 7784449" data-attributes="member: 48965">This is the probably the last time I'll reply to you on this because you don't seem to get it.  There are two axis that I find the 4e and 5e Tieflings not to my liking... The first is the standardized appearance most epitomized in 4e but also a part of 5e... however with SCAG and that small sidebar you mentioned the freedom for Tieflings to have a non-unified look was opened up... were there a ton of examples given?  Nope but the point is the option was given... and the precedence was set for it to be expanded on by DM's either in home campaigns or through DM's Guild. The second is the imposition of a monolithic and singular background...either they are all descendants of the nobles of a single civilization/culture/etc. mostly epitomized in 4e by all of them being part of the corrupted nobles of the Bael Turath civilization or we have the all Asmodeus narrative in 5e... it amounts to the same thing a narrowing of the possibilities in origin and background of Tieflings that I don't think is better in any way than the mysterious and open possibilities Planescape offered. The 5e PHB leaves the Tieflings pretty open pretty but since FR is the default for 5e, I appreciate the fact that SCAG makes it doubly clear there is no all encompassing narrative for the backgrounds and origins of Tieflings anymore (though there is a most common origin) and they are not all specifically of the blood of Asmodeus.... Xanthars goes a step further and gives us some actual subraces.  Now do either of these books totally open up all the possibilities of Planescape... nope to my dissapointment WotC seems intent on keeping them as infernal based, but again unlike say the Dragonborn who really haven't been changed beyond their incarnation in the PHB, WotC have steadily offered more and more possibilities outside the original (narrow) origin and culture of Tieflings presented in 5e or 4e.  That's the direction I want to see them go in and am glad that seems to be where they are at as well.Now if you expect me to type out the details of the exact differences between the 4e and 5e Tieflings every time I am talking about this stuff well I'm not since I think most people get what the big issues are around the way the race was done in both editions (stated above) whether or not I'm using all-Asmodeus tieflings as a short hand for both editions giving them a singular background/culture or not.EDIT: The thing I find hilarious about this debate is that Planescape/2e Tieflings encompassed the 4e Tieflings and so much more... it's like arguing the world would be improved if we only had grapes vs the variety of fruits we have instead.</blockquote>

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