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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Wombat" data-source="post: 2617969" data-attributes="member: 8447">I run into problems with the percieved level of magic in D&D.  The base rules-as-written require a lot of magic.  Not only are very few of the character classes spell-free, but there is a large assumption built in about magic items necessary to complete tasks appropriate to one's level.  This is the whole basis of the CR.  In the end, the RAW has a large amount of Magic Creep built into it.This does not mean, however, that a D20 (as opposed to D&D) game cannot be lower magic.  Certainly this is something that I strive for and enjoy quite a bit; this probably also explains why I pick up so for WotC books any more -- the material in them is rarely conducive to expanding any campaign that I have in place due to the reliance on percieved requirements of magical aid.  By removing prices for magical items, instead having them very rare, usually created through the coming together of multiple individuals (great craftsmen, priests, and suchlike), there are no magic shops.  This means that fighting types in particular are going to be at a disadvantage at higher levels compared to the built-in magical oomph of spell-using classes.  This then requires another adjustment, removing many combat-oriented spells (which is the vast majority of the list to begin with) from the list for example, making them available only through specific groups who require allegiance to them, and all allegiances come at a price.  Equally it is easy enough to place restrictions on the ability to rise in spell using classes -- every third level, for example, must be as a non-spellcrafter.  So, yes, it is possible to tinker with the rules and create something with a much lower magic power curve.  To do this, however, does take a lot of thought, much more than simply removing a few magical weapons.  Sometimes a specific set of D20 rules (Grim Tales, for example) makes the calculations a bit easier; these are not thought embraced by WotC, true, but at least they are possibilities, if that particular set of rules works for your particular campaign.  Then again, I am a gaming cobbler, so it is always easy for me to use ideas from many sets of rules.The problem that those of us who prefer lower assumed magical levels run into constantly is that we are "not playing the game right" or "not really playing D&D".  I'll cop to the latter, though not the former.  I don't play D&D.  I do play D20.  I'm good with that and so are all of my players.  The basic mechanics are not bad at all, but they need a lot of tinkering to form the precise game we are going to find enjoyable.  Amongst other things, that means scouring down magic quite a bit.</blockquote>

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