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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Altalazar" data-source="post: 2622196" data-attributes="member: 939">True, only one definition of aphorism is a pithy way to express an opinion, but there is another definition, that of a well-expressed truth.  And so perhaps this isn't about the level of magic at all, merely a case of some DMs annoyed when their players expect to find more magic than the DM expects to give.  And players annoyed for the same reason.  Personally, I don't have a problem with magic, and in a campaign, however much magic I find as a player is fine with me, so long as it is consistent with the world (i.e. I don't end up fighting creatures that are immune to harm because they are more magical than the items we find).  And what you describe doesn't sound very high magic - a handful of magic items and some scrolls.  No matter how many items the PCs have, rarity is a global issue, not a party issue.  If every peasant has loads of magical equipment, you have a point, but if only the rare handful of heroes in the world do, well, that could still make magic very rare.  I think it is a perception issue, which is why I said it is all in people's heads.  To some, what you suggest might as well be banishing all magic, because you eliminate 99% of it as compared to what others might consider average magic.  To others, what may seem like only a handful of magic items to some is considered cheesy high magic by them (such as your example above of a handful of low power magic items - armor, shield, misc items, and a few scrolls).  I think it is because of that perception problem.  I think the problem is that there is a disconnect between what 'high' and 'low' magic even mean.  To the epic-level-with-only-a-+1-rusty-dagger types, what they call 'high' magic might seem only 'average' or even 'low' magic to the 'every-town-guard-has-a-+1-weapon' types.  And thus, it seems to each side that there is an extreme quality to the arguments.  You can see this at its most basic when the low-magic people call the default D&D 'high' magic and others instead see the default as 'average' magic.If you want to avoid that, you need to establish common ground, or at least common terminology.  Perhaps an explicit chart of the amount of magic at various levels and a label next to each as to just how 'high' the magic is.  Then you can use that as the basis for a discussion.  Without that, you will be doomed to further frustration.</blockquote>

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