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The extreme proliferation of magic in D&D
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<blockquote data-quote="Steverooo" data-source="post: 2629492" data-attributes="member: 9410"><p>There ARE plenty of magic weapons around, in LotR! In fact, there are SO MANY that the folks who made the barrows buried them with their dead, instead of keeping them for the living! Magic, in Middle Earth, however, is far less flashy than in D&D. Narcil/Anduril is magical, and, indeed, heavily enchanted, but you cannot tell it from the books or movie. Likewise, while many obviously magical things happen, Tolkien never says that anyone (save Gandalf and the Balrog) cast a spell.</p><p></p><p>I don't think we know how many magical items the Fellowship had. At the battle before the gates of Mordor, Aragorn dons maille. How would we know whether or not it's magical? It's not like it glows in the dark!</p><p></p><p>Also, the conversation with the Elves of Lothlorien, where Samwise is asking about the cloaks and his rope is very telling... The Elf doesn't understand what he means by "magic". Indeed, even Galadriel seems confused by the multiple Human uses of the word...</p><p></p><p>So Samwise's rope would, in D&D terms, be a <em>Rope of Climbing</em>. Were the caps and helms magical? What about all the gear they picked up in Rohan? How would you know?</p><p></p><p>Exactly! You wouldn't!</p><p></p><p>Also, Sting is more than just a mere +1 Shortsword... It detects Orcs, and glows when they're near. It also bears an inscription (mentioned in <u>The Hobbit</u>, I believe) which states something like "Maedhros is my name; I am the spider's bane", which is why it was so effective against the giant spiders of Mirkwood, in that book, and later both Shelob's webs, and herself, in later volumes.</p><p></p><p>Also forgotten are that both Orcrist and Glamdring have the detecting and Bane powers (detecting isn't in the basic rules set, but I've seen it elsewhere). Assuming all the "PCs'" armour is +1 or more helps to show that the Fellowship isn't as underpowered as might first appear...</p><p></p><p>Look at the Phial of Galadriel, for instance... Just a weak light, you say? Not so! If nothing else, it was an at-will light source, a scrying focus for Galadriel to keep an eye on Sam & Frodo (and at one point, Sam wishes for just a sip of water, and clouds roll in from the WEST, over the mountains, and it DOES rain!). It is also the ONLY way through both the guardian-statue-thing at the orc tower, AND the pits of Shelob... and I can make a case that it also inspired Samwise with courage on SEVERAL occasions!</p><p></p><p>Sorry, I see this as so much more than a mere <em>Sometimes-burning Torch</em>!</p><p></p><p>So, how well equipped were the Fellowship? The truth is, we'll never know! People can't even agree on whether or not most of them even cast spells! (I can make a case for almost every member, except the Hobbits, using spells).</p><p></p><p>If you want a similar style of D&D, name your magical weapons, and inscribe them (the latter, at least, is already in the rules)! Give Bards the chance to use their knowledge to recognize such things. Make items that have specific special uses, like the Phial, instead of "stock" magic items! Give EVERYTHING a more unique magical flavor! No more "+1 sword that we got off the troll", but "Glamdring, Hammer of Foes, forged in ancient Gondolin, for the Goblin Wars"! +1 Detection & Bane weapon, or whatever... It's much more interesting!</p><p></p><p>Tolkien even goes so far as to name and give a special history to POTIONS, for crying out loud! Gandalf's <em>Miruvor</em> is, in D&D terms, an old <em>Potion of Endurance</em> (if I'm getting the name right), which dispels fatigue/exhaustion, and removes poisons during its period of efficacy!</p><p></p><p>And Gandalf's staff? What powers did it have? Do we know?</p><p></p><p>No. Not really. He certainly had other powers of protection, at least, that we don't know about... He went toe-to-toe with a Balrog for many, many days, before finally slaying it... Even a D&D Wizard with a <em>Staff of the Magi</em> and a full compliment of spells would find that hard to do... and he DID make a Retributive strike, on the bridge of Khazad-Dum!</p><p></p><p>So, in short, the LotR magic level is much higher (and generally less flashy!) than most people think. In Middle Earth, Tolkien runs with the rule that "Knowledge is Power", and doesn't call attention to "magic", as it is just "learning", in his world...</p><p></p><p> <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Steverooo, post: 2629492, member: 9410"] There ARE plenty of magic weapons around, in LotR! In fact, there are SO MANY that the folks who made the barrows buried them with their dead, instead of keeping them for the living! Magic, in Middle Earth, however, is far less flashy than in D&D. Narcil/Anduril is magical, and, indeed, heavily enchanted, but you cannot tell it from the books or movie. Likewise, while many obviously magical things happen, Tolkien never says that anyone (save Gandalf and the Balrog) cast a spell. I don't think we know how many magical items the Fellowship had. At the battle before the gates of Mordor, Aragorn dons maille. How would we know whether or not it's magical? It's not like it glows in the dark! Also, the conversation with the Elves of Lothlorien, where Samwise is asking about the cloaks and his rope is very telling... The Elf doesn't understand what he means by "magic". Indeed, even Galadriel seems confused by the multiple Human uses of the word... So Samwise's rope would, in D&D terms, be a [I]Rope of Climbing[/I]. Were the caps and helms magical? What about all the gear they picked up in Rohan? How would you know? Exactly! You wouldn't! Also, Sting is more than just a mere +1 Shortsword... It detects Orcs, and glows when they're near. It also bears an inscription (mentioned in [U]The Hobbit[/U], I believe) which states something like "Maedhros is my name; I am the spider's bane", which is why it was so effective against the giant spiders of Mirkwood, in that book, and later both Shelob's webs, and herself, in later volumes. Also forgotten are that both Orcrist and Glamdring have the detecting and Bane powers (detecting isn't in the basic rules set, but I've seen it elsewhere). Assuming all the "PCs'" armour is +1 or more helps to show that the Fellowship isn't as underpowered as might first appear... Look at the Phial of Galadriel, for instance... Just a weak light, you say? Not so! If nothing else, it was an at-will light source, a scrying focus for Galadriel to keep an eye on Sam & Frodo (and at one point, Sam wishes for just a sip of water, and clouds roll in from the WEST, over the mountains, and it DOES rain!). It is also the ONLY way through both the guardian-statue-thing at the orc tower, AND the pits of Shelob... and I can make a case that it also inspired Samwise with courage on SEVERAL occasions! Sorry, I see this as so much more than a mere [I]Sometimes-burning Torch[/I]! So, how well equipped were the Fellowship? The truth is, we'll never know! People can't even agree on whether or not most of them even cast spells! (I can make a case for almost every member, except the Hobbits, using spells). If you want a similar style of D&D, name your magical weapons, and inscribe them (the latter, at least, is already in the rules)! Give Bards the chance to use their knowledge to recognize such things. Make items that have specific special uses, like the Phial, instead of "stock" magic items! Give EVERYTHING a more unique magical flavor! No more "+1 sword that we got off the troll", but "Glamdring, Hammer of Foes, forged in ancient Gondolin, for the Goblin Wars"! +1 Detection & Bane weapon, or whatever... It's much more interesting! Tolkien even goes so far as to name and give a special history to POTIONS, for crying out loud! Gandalf's [I]Miruvor[/I] is, in D&D terms, an old [I]Potion of Endurance[/I] (if I'm getting the name right), which dispels fatigue/exhaustion, and removes poisons during its period of efficacy! And Gandalf's staff? What powers did it have? Do we know? No. Not really. He certainly had other powers of protection, at least, that we don't know about... He went toe-to-toe with a Balrog for many, many days, before finally slaying it... Even a D&D Wizard with a [I]Staff of the Magi[/I] and a full compliment of spells would find that hard to do... and he DID make a Retributive strike, on the bridge of Khazad-Dum! So, in short, the LotR magic level is much higher (and generally less flashy!) than most people think. In Middle Earth, Tolkien runs with the rule that "Knowledge is Power", and doesn't call attention to "magic", as it is just "learning", in his world... :D [/QUOTE]
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