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<blockquote data-quote="eamon" data-source="post: 3796117" data-attributes="member: 51942">Since the interpretation of Sunder as a standard action only relies on table 8-2: Actions in Combat, and since the PHB's tables aren't always... intuitive ;-), I decided to look up the rule texts if the actions under the &quot;Standard Action&quot; heading, to see if the rule texts explicitely mention the fact that they're standard actions:[code]Standard Action&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Rule text explicitly supports tableAttack (all types)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; yes (pg 139)Activate a magic item&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; yes (pg 142)Aid Another&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; yes (pg 154)Bull Rush&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; yes (pg 154)Cast a Spell&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; yes (pg 140)Concentrate to Maintain Spell&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; yes (pg 140)Dismiss a spell&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; yes (pg 142)Draw a Hidden weapon&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; yes (pg 82)Drink a Potion*&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; yes (DMG 213)Escape a Grapple&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; yes** (pg 156)Feint&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; yes (pg 155)Light a toch with Tindertwig&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; yes (pg 129)Lower Spell Resistance&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; yes (pg 177)Make Dieing Friend Stable&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; yes (pg 76)Overrun&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; yes (pg 157)Read a scroll&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; yes (pg 142)Ready&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; yes (pg 160)Sunder&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; no (pg 158)Total Defense&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; yes (pg 142)Turn Undead&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; yes (pg 159Use Extraordinary Ability&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; yes (pg 142)Use Skill that takes one action&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; yes (pg 145)Use Spell like Ability&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; yes (pg 142)Use Supernatural Ability&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; yes (pg 142)-------------------------------------------------------------------* (action not described in PHB, though Activate Magic Item does&nbsp;&nbsp; generically describe it and supports the table as well)** Text is explicit that such an Escape is a standard action when using&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Escape Artist.&nbsp; A normal grapple check can be made instead of a &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; melee attack.[/code]The fact that the table in question is clearly set up to provide an overview of whether an action provokes AoO's, and the fact that all other standard actions explicitly mention they're standard actions, coupled with the fact that the Sunder description's text is similar to &quot;Disarm&quot; &quot;Throw Splash Weapons&quot; and &quot;Trip&quot;, all of which you can use instead of a normal attack, and finally coupled with the FAQ's explicit interpretation, I can't really see any support for interpreting Sunder as a standard action which can't be taken whenever you could normally attack.Sunder says &quot;You can use a melee attack with a slashing or bludgeoning weapon to strike a weapon or shield that your opponent is holding.&quot;&nbsp; That certainly sounds like you can use any melee attack to do so, but context could expand the requirements - i.e. that a melee attack is a necessary though not sufficient requirement.&nbsp; That context, however, is only implicitly present in the form of tabl 8-2.Interpreting Sunder as a standard action really requires assuming that the absence of footnote 7 in table 8-2 is an intentional signal indicating that it can't be used to substitute for a normal attack.&nbsp; Significantly, even normal attacks, ranged attacks and unarmed attacks are all listed without footnote 7, and they're all listed in the same section of the table as sunder, so that's not at all obvious.&nbsp; The table definitely doesn't come out and say that it cannot be substituted for any other melee attack, and the previous evidence suggests that it can - all other standard actions explicitly say that's what they are, the FAQ indicates designer intent, and the rule text mentions that a melee attack can be used (and makes no mention of further requirements).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="eamon, post: 3796117, member: 51942"] Since the interpretation of Sunder as a standard action only relies on table 8-2: Actions in Combat, and since the PHB's tables aren't always... intuitive ;-), I decided to look up the rule texts if the actions under the "Standard Action" heading, to see if the rule texts explicitely mention the fact that they're standard actions: [code]Standard Action Rule text explicitly supports table Attack (all types) yes (pg 139) Activate a magic item yes (pg 142) Aid Another yes (pg 154) Bull Rush yes (pg 154) Cast a Spell yes (pg 140) Concentrate to Maintain Spell yes (pg 140) Dismiss a spell yes (pg 142) Draw a Hidden weapon yes (pg 82) Drink a Potion* yes (DMG 213) Escape a Grapple yes** (pg 156) Feint yes (pg 155) Light a toch with Tindertwig yes (pg 129) Lower Spell Resistance yes (pg 177) Make Dieing Friend Stable yes (pg 76) Overrun yes (pg 157) Read a scroll yes (pg 142) Ready yes (pg 160) Sunder no (pg 158) Total Defense yes (pg 142) Turn Undead yes (pg 159 Use Extraordinary Ability yes (pg 142) Use Skill that takes one action yes (pg 145) Use Spell like Ability yes (pg 142) Use Supernatural Ability yes (pg 142) ------------------------------------------------------------------- * (action not described in PHB, though Activate Magic Item does generically describe it and supports the table as well) ** Text is explicit that such an Escape is a standard action when using Escape Artist. A normal grapple check can be made instead of a melee attack.[/code] The fact that the table in question is clearly set up to provide an overview of whether an action provokes AoO's, and the fact that all other standard actions explicitly mention they're standard actions, coupled with the fact that the Sunder description's text is similar to "Disarm" "Throw Splash Weapons" and "Trip", all of which you can use instead of a normal attack, and finally coupled with the FAQ's explicit interpretation, I can't really see any support for interpreting Sunder as a standard action which can't be taken whenever you could normally attack. Sunder says "You can use a melee attack with a slashing or bludgeoning weapon to strike a weapon or shield that your opponent is holding." That certainly sounds like you can use [i]any[/i] melee attack to do so, but context could expand the requirements - i.e. that a melee attack is a necessary though not sufficient requirement. That context, however, is only implicitly present in the form of tabl 8-2. Interpreting Sunder as a standard action really requires assuming that the [i]absence[/i] of footnote 7 in table 8-2 is an intentional signal indicating that it can't be used to substitute for a normal attack. Significantly, even normal attacks, ranged attacks and unarmed attacks are all listed without footnote 7, and they're all listed in the same section of the table as sunder, so that's not at all obvious. The table definitely doesn't come out and say that it cannot be substituted for any other melee attack, and the previous evidence suggests that it can - [i]all[/i] other standard actions explicitly say that's what they are, the FAQ indicates designer intent, and the rule text mentions that a melee attack can be used (and makes [i]no[/i] mention of further requirements). [/QUOTE]

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