NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Beginning of the End" data-source="post: 3813072" data-attributes="member: 55271">Lemme see if I can follow your argument:1. You rewrite what the rules say, but it's only a slight change so you hope nobody notices what you did.2. Then you rewrite what the rules say even more, but it's only a slight change of the slight change you already made, so you hope that nobody notices what you did.Yeah... that argument isn't doing much for me.Okay, let's break this down by looking at all of the "Special Attacks" in the SRD (except for mounted combat):NOT AN ATTACKAID ANOTHER: "...you can attempt to aid your friend as a standard action."BULL RUSH: "You can make a bull rush as a standard action..."CHARGE: "Charging is a special full-round action..."FEINT: "Feinting is a standard action."GRAPPLE - DRAW A LIGHT WEAPON: "You can draw a light weapon as a move action with a successful grapple check."GRAPPLE - MOVE: "This requires a standard action..."GRAPPLE - RETRIEVE SPELL COMPONENT: "You can produce a spell component from your pouch while grappling by using a full-round action."OVERRUN: "You can attempt an overrun as a standard action taken during your move."TURN/REBUKE UNDEAD: "Turning undead is a supernatural ability that a character can perform as a standard action."DEFINITELY AN ATTACKDISARM: "As a melee attack, you may attempt to disarm your opponent."STARTING A GRAPPLE: "If you get multiple attacks, you can attempt to start a grapple multiple times (at successively lower base attack bonuses)."GRAPPLE - DAMAGE YOUR OPPONENT: "While grappling, you can deal damage to your opponent equivalent to an unarmed strike. Make an opposed grapple check in place of an attack."GRAPPLE - ESCAPE: "You can escape a grapple by winning an opposed grapple check in place of making an attack."GRAPPLE - PIN YOUR OPPONENT: "You can hold your opponent immobile for 1 round by winning an opposed grapple check (made in place of an attack)."GRAPPLE - BREAK ANOTHER'S PIN: "If you are grappling an opponent who has another character pinned, you can make an opposed grapple check in place of an attack."GRAPPLE - USE AN OPPONENT'S WEAPON: "If your opponent is holding a light weapon, you can use it to attack him. Make an opposed grapple check (in place of an attack)."THROW SPLASH WEAPON: "To attack with a splash weapon, make a ranged touch attack against the target."TRIP: "You can try to trip an opponent as an unarmed melee attack."SUNDER"You can use a melee attack with a slashing or bludgeoning weapon to strike a weapon or shield that your opponent is holding."CONCLUSIONSWhat do we notice here? Well, first we notice that every single "Special Attack" that doesn't take the place of an attack specifically states the type of action it requires:- "as a standard action" / "as a move action" (x6)- "is a special full-round action"- "requires a standard action"- "using a full-round action"When a "Special Attack" takes the place of an attack we find:- "as a melee attack" / "as an unarmed melee attack" (x2)- "If you get multiple attacks, you can attempt to start a grapple multiple times..."- "in place of an attack"  (x5)- "make a ranged touch attack"Now, what do we notice about the description for Sunder? 1. It contains no statement of the type of action it requires.2. It contains the phrase "use a melee attack" -- which looks a lot like "as a melee attack", "in place of a melee attack", and "make a melee attack", but looks absolutely nothing like "using a standard action", "requires a standard action", or "as a standard action".Thus we conclude that Sunder is clearly written as an action which is used as an attack. According to the rules, this supersedes the table. It simple doesn't matter that the table incorrectly omitted this information. Of course, the table's omission can cause confusion. But when confusion like this arises the best thing to do is check the FAQ.(Guess what the FAQ says?)</blockquote>

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