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<blockquote data-quote="klofft" data-source="post: 2916983" data-attributes="member: 40326">So...&nbsp;&nbsp; I'm reading the Lords of Madness and I'm getting a kick out of it.&nbsp; I like the Lovecraftian horror elements and overall it's a better read than I expected.However, I'm confused about the cosmological changes.&nbsp; I thought that, officially, the Far Realm was NOT a part of the core cosmology.&nbsp; Yet this book seems to suggest otherwise, as does a timeline kicking around the forum here somewhere.In my homebrew, I'm basically using the core Greyhawk cosmology, slightly tweaked.&nbsp; I have an overgod who is behind the scenes, completely unknown to all but the gods themselves.&nbsp; The gods are supremely powerful, but are also a bit like &quot;super-angels.&quot;&nbsp; In this way, I'm borrowing from Tolkien.&nbsp; As far as the material plane knows, Pelor and Nerull function very broadly as &quot;God&quot; and &quot;the devil,&quot; with all the other gods basically taking up sides (the overgod respects the free will of the gods, just as it does of all intelligent beings).Anyway, all of that is somewhat secondary.&nbsp; I don't have a problem with incorporating the Far Realm into all this.&nbsp; My original idea for it was NOT that it was a cosmic predecessor to the other planes (it really grates on me as a professional theologian to imagine the gods only having power because people worship them - its also internally inconsistent in the default setting itself).&nbsp; Rather, the Far Realm was basically a hidden, cosmic &quot;magic dump.&quot;&nbsp; All magic manipulates reality, which implies that there is an &quot;objective&quot; reality being manipulated.&nbsp; I'm positing (very loosely, I'll admit) that these magical changes to reality create &quot;metaphysical garbage&quot; that is the Far Realm.OK.&nbsp; Even all THAT hasn't reached my point (sorry!).&nbsp; If the beings that exist in the Far Realm are &quot;elder evils,&quot; how do I make that jive with the notion of &quot;evil&quot; gods in the &quot;regular&quot; realms? Are they two different &quot;flavors&quot; of evil? Is one beholden to the other? I briefly toyed with the idea that Nerull (as my big cosmic evil force) was also ruler over the Far Realm, but that really just makes the Far Realm another evil outer plane.&nbsp; But my cosmology can't permit that the beings of the Far Realm are actually more powerful than the gods, and it seems to be a too-easy abstraction to say that the beings of the Far Realm are simply amoral (my campaign thrives on the good vs. evil conflict).&nbsp; But having two &quot;evils&quot; seems clunky.If anyone can interpret this, any ideas about how to solve my metaphysical conundrum?C</blockquote>

[QUOTE="klofft, post: 2916983, member: 40326"] So... I'm reading the Lords of Madness and I'm getting a kick out of it. I like the Lovecraftian horror elements and overall it's a better read than I expected. However, I'm confused about the cosmological changes. I thought that, officially, the Far Realm was NOT a part of the core cosmology. Yet this book seems to suggest otherwise, as does a timeline kicking around the forum here somewhere. In my homebrew, I'm basically using the core Greyhawk cosmology, slightly tweaked. I have an overgod who is behind the scenes, completely unknown to all but the gods themselves. The gods are supremely powerful, but are also a bit like "super-angels." In this way, I'm borrowing from Tolkien. As far as the material plane knows, Pelor and Nerull function very broadly as "God" and "the devil," with all the other gods basically taking up sides (the overgod respects the free will of the gods, just as it does of all intelligent beings). Anyway, all of that is somewhat secondary. I don't have a problem with incorporating the Far Realm into all this. My original idea for it was NOT that it was a cosmic predecessor to the other planes (it really grates on me as a professional theologian to imagine the gods only having power because people worship them - its also internally inconsistent in the default setting itself). Rather, the Far Realm was basically a hidden, cosmic "magic dump." All magic manipulates reality, which implies that there is an "objective" reality being manipulated. I'm positing (very loosely, I'll admit) that these magical changes to reality create "metaphysical garbage" that is the Far Realm. OK. Even all THAT hasn't reached my point (sorry!). If the beings that exist in the Far Realm are "elder evils," how do I make that jive with the notion of "evil" gods in the "regular" realms? Are they two different "flavors" of evil? Is one beholden to the other? I briefly toyed with the idea that Nerull (as my big cosmic evil force) was also ruler over the Far Realm, but that really just makes the Far Realm another evil outer plane. But my cosmology can't permit that the beings of the Far Realm are actually more powerful than the gods, and it seems to be a too-easy abstraction to say that the beings of the Far Realm are simply amoral (my campaign thrives on the good vs. evil conflict). But having two "evils" seems clunky. If anyone can interpret this, any ideas about how to solve my metaphysical conundrum? C [/QUOTE]

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