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<blockquote data-quote="Stalker0" data-source="post: 8113820" data-attributes="member: 5889"><p>This is a fair point, the whole must be taken in order to fully evaluate whether the wizard is "missing out" compared to other classes. I agree, so lets try and look a little deeper.</p><p></p><p>First, a fundamental question must be asked: Are classes (before compression) balanced at 10th level?</p><p></p><p>Your answer to this question will flavor your thoughts on the discussion, so its important to consider. I will start from the position of "Yes, the classes are balanced".</p><p></p><p>So lets take a look at the "core 4" classes and see how they stack up to each other with this compression (aka what do they gain by 10th). This will help us make a direct comparison for debate. I am also going to select a common subclass for each. I think its way too easy to ignore subclass abilities (some of which are very good) in this debate, and subclasses are as core to the power of a class as the fundamental abilities are, so we cannot ignore them.</p><p></p><p><strong>Wizard (Diviner)</strong></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You roll three d20s for your Portent feature, rather than two.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Auto Prepare 2 3rd level spells, cast each 1/short rest for free.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Cast a 1st and 2nd level spell at will.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">+1 Arcane Recovery (which roughly translates to an extra 5th level spell per day).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">+4 to Arcana Checks</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Their spells impose disadvantage on counterspell checks.</li> </ul><p><strong>Rogue (Thief)</strong></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Minimum 10 roll on ability checks</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Detect Hidden or Invisible creatures within 10 feet</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">+4 to Wisdom saving throws</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">No attack has advantage against you unless incapacitated.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">One ability check becomes 20, or 1 missed attack becomes hit (1/short rest).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You ignore all class, race, and level requirements on the use of magic items.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You can take two turns during the first round of any combat. You take your first turn at your normal initiative and your second turn at your initiative minus 10. You can’t use this feature when you are surprised.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">ASI</li> </ul><p><strong>Cleric (Life Domain)</strong></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Destroy Undead (CR 2-4)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">+1 Channel Divinity per Rest (aka 50 HP of healing as an action or a Turn Undead)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">All Healing with spells is Maximized (aka 4d6 = 24)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Can cast any 5th level Cleric or Domain spell 1/week</li> </ul><p><strong>Fighter (Champion)</strong></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Reroll saving throw (and must keep new result) 2/long rest</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">+1 AC</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">+1 to Saving Throws</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">+1 Attack</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Crit on 18-20 (up from 19-20)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">If at half HP (and not 0), gain 5 + con mod in HP.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">ASI</li> </ul></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Stalker0, post: 8113820, member: 5889"] This is a fair point, the whole must be taken in order to fully evaluate whether the wizard is "missing out" compared to other classes. I agree, so lets try and look a little deeper. First, a fundamental question must be asked: Are classes (before compression) balanced at 10th level? Your answer to this question will flavor your thoughts on the discussion, so its important to consider. I will start from the position of "Yes, the classes are balanced". So lets take a look at the "core 4" classes and see how they stack up to each other with this compression (aka what do they gain by 10th). This will help us make a direct comparison for debate. I am also going to select a common subclass for each. I think its way too easy to ignore subclass abilities (some of which are very good) in this debate, and subclasses are as core to the power of a class as the fundamental abilities are, so we cannot ignore them. [B]Wizard (Diviner)[/B] [LIST] [*]You roll three d20s for your Portent feature, rather than two. [*]Auto Prepare 2 3rd level spells, cast each 1/short rest for free. [*]Cast a 1st and 2nd level spell at will. [*]+1 Arcane Recovery (which roughly translates to an extra 5th level spell per day). [*]+4 to Arcana Checks [*]Their spells impose disadvantage on counterspell checks. [/LIST] [B]Rogue (Thief)[/B] [LIST] [*]Minimum 10 roll on ability checks [*]Detect Hidden or Invisible creatures within 10 feet [*]+4 to Wisdom saving throws [*]No attack has advantage against you unless incapacitated. [*]One ability check becomes 20, or 1 missed attack becomes hit (1/short rest). [*]You ignore all class, race, and level requirements on the use of magic items. [*]You can take two turns during the first round of any combat. You take your first turn at your normal initiative and your second turn at your initiative minus 10. You can’t use this feature when you are surprised. [*]ASI [/LIST] [B]Cleric (Life Domain)[/B] [LIST] [*]Destroy Undead (CR 2-4) [*]+1 Channel Divinity per Rest (aka 50 HP of healing as an action or a Turn Undead) [*]All Healing with spells is Maximized (aka 4d6 = 24) [*]Can cast any 5th level Cleric or Domain spell 1/week [/LIST] [B]Fighter (Champion)[/B] [LIST] [*]Reroll saving throw (and must keep new result) 2/long rest [*]+1 AC [*]+1 to Saving Throws [*]+1 Attack [*]Crit on 18-20 (up from 19-20) [*]If at half HP (and not 0), gain 5 + con mod in HP. [*]ASI [/LIST] [/QUOTE]
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