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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7141250" data-attributes="member: 996">I don't know of any.  The maneuvers are not designed with any sort of level-gating or stratification in mind, so they don't lend themselves to it at all well.  The better maneuvers tend to be better, situationally, for instance, rather than strictly.  They're all designed to be reasonably acceptable for a third level PC to have, along-side martial ability that the BM shares with the EK, who gets 1st level spells at the same time.  So taking the 'better' ones and pushing them out would be like making Sleep a higher level spell, if there weren't already higher level spells, rather than introducing Fireball.  Probably would require more maneuvers, better maneuvers, and further refining the system, so that 'higher level' maneuvers are less available in play, as well as their acquisition delayed.   Pre-requisite 'trees' like feats in 3e?  It was a nice idea but it led to frustratingly late-blooming 'builds.'  I suppose if we want the BM to be a 3.5-style-supporting system-mastery-required class - but then, might as go all the way and have a bonus-feat-heavy sub-class. They already have a CS die cost.  If you put them into only a few strata, by Tier or roughly corresponding to the spell levels the EK gets, you might have some cost more CS dice, or, instead of getting bigger CS dice as he levels, the BM could get /more/ and bigger dice, while retaining the smaller dice - the more powerful maneuvers only work with the bigger dice, the lesser ones can use any die. So far they've completely avoided the issue by never publishing another maneuver.  It seems like an odd thing to get hung up on.  Casters share most spells across class boundaries, why would different fighter sub-classes sharing most maneuvers be an issue? The Warlord (and if we can't even mention it for fear of overwhelming h4ter bigotry destroying the thread, the forum doesn't deserve to exist, anyway), would never fit into the fighter chassis as a sub-class, anyway.  Maybe, if Extra Attack, Action Surge & Second Wind were exclusive to the Champion, and similar functionality were instead bundled into various maneuvers, the BM would have enough design space for a good selection of level-gated/progressive-cost maneuvers - and maybe that'd even open up enough design space for some Warlord-like sub-classes. But, IMHO, highly-optional full-class is the only way to introduce a Warlord at this late date. More & better maneuvers could maybe open up more viable builds?</blockquote>

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