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Message: <blockquote data-quote="James Gasik" data-source="post: 7247094" data-attributes="member: 6877472">Optimization is bad, every Fighter should be built as a Noble with 18 Charisma, who cares if other classes get more mileage out of 18 Charisma, or can actually be better party faces due to their class features, the Fighter CAN be built to cover his weaknesses, so obviously, he has no weaknesses at all!I apologize for the hyperbole, I know that isn't actually what anyone here is saying.  Any time there is a discussion about one of the cornerstones of the game, there will be a lot of different opinions.  I've seen variations on this for, well, most of the time I've played the game.2e: The Fighter sucks, the Paladin and the Ranger are better!  vs. Oh yeah, to be a Paladin I need a useless 17 Charisma and have to be a goody good, and to be a Ranger I can't wear good armor!  Plus they don't get weapon specialization! (Except when they do, darned Kits).3e: The Fighter sucks, all he gets are Feats! vs. Whatever, you get 18 Feats and I get 7!3.5e: The Fighter sucks, the Warblade took all his toys!  vs. uh...well...the Fighter still gets a huge benefit from haste...?4e: The Fighter...is actually not bad.  I mean, marking is probably weaker than it needs to be, and he could stand to do more damage, but...go team Fighter!4.5e: The Fighter sucks!  Either he's a lackluster Striker or a black hole Defender with some bizarro "aura" that nobody understands, so every monster just attacks him until he dies! vs. What are you talking about, now the Fighter can fight all day long, and never run out of "powers" like a darned Wizard!5e: The Fighter sucks!  All he can do is fight! vs. What do you mean, he gets like, two bonus ASI's!  He can have the best stats in the game and like, two extra Feats!  He can be built to be good at everything!I think the real problems of the Fighter class stem from having to carry a few unfortunate burdens.  One, that there needs to be a "simple" class, and that's normally the Fighter's job.  Few complicated abilities, a lot of "always on" stuff, resource management is minimal, etc..The other is a variant of the "guy at the gym" fallacy that drives me up the wall.  Some people want the Fighter to be Conan or John McClane- a regular human who persists and wins despite not having cool magic powers.  They don't want Cú Chulainn or Achilles- who can perform superhuman feats in battle.Stuck between these two burdens, the Fighter has always felt like he's wearing a straitjacket- other classes often have game designers tripping over themselves to be given ever more gonzo abilities so they can be seen as cool and awesome- and if you so much as give a Fighter a few spells, there's guaranteed to be a grognard in the corner grumbling about how "back in '78, all a Fighter needed was an 18(00) Strength and a good sword to be awesome!".</blockquote>

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