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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sacrosanct" data-source="post: 7248800" data-attributes="member: 15700">Back on point, I've long said that fighters are the more tricky class to design (despite their simplicity on the surface) because they represent the largest umbrella of archetypes, and everyone draws their line a bit differently.  Even if you completely put aside archetypes like fighter magic users (Elric, etc) and focus just on those who use mundane combat only, it's a class that has to be able to replicate them all.MerceanriesSoldiersknightsswashbucklerspiratessamuraiZuluthe list goes on and onAnd then you have literary heroes that fall under the umbrella, and this is where it gets hard, because you have one group (like myself) that views the classic mundane fighter without superhuman abilities, such as:Thorgrim and Rexor (Conan the Barbarian)Bombata (Conan the Destroyer)Boramir (LOTR)Helt and Menion Leah (Sword of Shannara)Batman Durnik and Hetter (Pawn of Prophecy)Mad Martigan (Willow)Uther Pendragonand the list goes on and on and on (look at any 80s fantasy movie)And then you have plenty or archetypes that do have superhuman abilitiesCaptain AmericaSampson (biblical)PerseusJason (from the Argonauts)Pretty much any Wuxia filmWhat I'm seeing pop up in this thread is a version of "Person X from list 2 is a fighter, so you should accept that fighters have those things." and "But I want my fighters to come from list 1, and everything else is an add on, like a multi-class or a feat."Personally, I don't see why folks are treating them as mutually exclusive.  The best way to appease both groups is to have a core fighter cover only list 1, then have options (like subclasses or feats) that allow you to have a fighter like list 2.  The core foundation should always be the more basic, because like a building or a car, it's easier to add on to rather than try to strip away.  And then you can have the fighter be BOTH lists</blockquote>

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