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The Fighter Extra Feat Fallacy
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7255594" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>This is probably the number 2 or 3 way to dismiss the fighter's out-of-combat shortcomings. (After the Fabulous Fighter Feat Fallacy the OP debunked, and invoking the warm-body contributions possible under BA, I'd say.)</p><p></p><p>Strictly speaking, though, Action Surge is an ability you use on your turn, to take an extra action. You do not have turns out of combat, and can take all the actions you want in most non-combat situations, so, by an utterly-inappropriate-to-5e-philosophy close reading of RAW, you both can't use Action Surge out of combat, and it has no effect out of combat. </p><p></p><p>That said, a DM ruling that you can expend Action Surge to get some benefit out of combat is perfectly reasonable - as is the DM ruling the same about expending any other resource - and virtually all sub-classes have more, more versatile, and more out-of-combat-significant resources than the Champion/BM fighter's action surge.</p><p></p><p> In that form, both popularity and good design are premises. The popularity has been amply demonstrated. The quality of it's design, however, has not been.</p><p></p><p>OTOH, it's also been more than amply demonstrated that the fighter has been the most popular class throughout the game's history, even as it's designs have varied radically. That points to the popularity being independent from design considerations, whether that design is at it's most-elegant (3.x), least-imbalanced (4e), most-OP-DPR (2e), or original/definitive (0e). In addition, while the fighter has been the most popular class in every edition, it's design and performance have garnered criticism in ever edition, as well, being tossed in Tier 5 for 3.x, decried as 'casting spells' in the edition war, characterized as 'the weak cousin' in it's own 2e supplement, or whatever.</p><p></p><p>So I am not missing that possibility, rather I am discounting it as too improbable to merit mention.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7255594, member: 996"] This is probably the number 2 or 3 way to dismiss the fighter's out-of-combat shortcomings. (After the Fabulous Fighter Feat Fallacy the OP debunked, and invoking the warm-body contributions possible under BA, I'd say.) Strictly speaking, though, Action Surge is an ability you use on your turn, to take an extra action. You do not have turns out of combat, and can take all the actions you want in most non-combat situations, so, by an utterly-inappropriate-to-5e-philosophy close reading of RAW, you both can't use Action Surge out of combat, and it has no effect out of combat. That said, a DM ruling that you can expend Action Surge to get some benefit out of combat is perfectly reasonable - as is the DM ruling the same about expending any other resource - and virtually all sub-classes have more, more versatile, and more out-of-combat-significant resources than the Champion/BM fighter's action surge. In that form, both popularity and good design are premises. The popularity has been amply demonstrated. The quality of it's design, however, has not been. OTOH, it's also been more than amply demonstrated that the fighter has been the most popular class throughout the game's history, even as it's designs have varied radically. That points to the popularity being independent from design considerations, whether that design is at it's most-elegant (3.x), least-imbalanced (4e), most-OP-DPR (2e), or original/definitive (0e). In addition, while the fighter has been the most popular class in every edition, it's design and performance have garnered criticism in ever edition, as well, being tossed in Tier 5 for 3.x, decried as 'casting spells' in the edition war, characterized as 'the weak cousin' in it's own 2e supplement, or whatever. So I am not missing that possibility, rather I am discounting it as too improbable to merit mention. [/QUOTE]
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