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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7256333" data-attributes="member: 996">I know this thread is moving fast, but no, I did not make the simple, absolute claim of universal thruth that Imaro chose to respond to.   I don't much care for RAW arguments, myself, afterall, so the RAW observation was rhetorical - and, yeah, it could've used another 'generally' weasel in there to avoid being trivially 'disproven' by a single counter-example (or the vague allusion to the possibility of one that Imaro uncovered).  You could get into a RAW argument about whether AS could even be 'legally' used out of combat, but it's moot in the context of 5e (at least, 5e 'run right,' IMHO - that is, in full-on DM-Empowerment mode), so the real issue is how Action Surge stacks up to other non-combat-applicable features (and, as Hussar illustrated, that's not very well).   Higher STR?  maybe ... unless it's a DEX-based fighter so it can hold a candle to the Ranger & Rogue when sneaking about... They're checks to which proficiency applies, so if Remarkable Athlete does kick in, the Champion will be inferior to anyone with comparable STR who actually is proficient - let alone anyone with Expertise or magic, as well.  (But there's an obvious/easy 'fix' for that...)Those were skills in 3e, they all fall under Athletics, now, AFAIK, so one hit of Expertise, and the fighter's in the dust.   And, really, are those the essential exploration skills?  What about perception, investigation, stealth, survival?  What about picking locks and disarming traps?  What about knowledge of nature, dungeons, other planes, and the various dangers you might encounter?  Besides, is getting by without a rope or a raft really all that big a deal?Which is a nice improvement over prior editions, BTW.  Then again, proficiency is readily available to anyone via Background, and proficiency doesn't count for as much as Trained (+5) or 'in-class' (double!) did in the most recent past editions, not without Expertise (double!) or some other feature layered atop it...  (BTW, that's one reason making RA stack would be a simple/easy, minor, fix to the Champion's out-of-combat performance, it'd go from half-as-good as proficiency, to proficiency-and-a-half, closer to the Expertise standard of excellence)</blockquote>

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