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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
The Fighter/Martial Problem (In Depth Ponderings)
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<blockquote data-quote="James Gasik" data-source="post: 9143759" data-attributes="member: 6877472"><p>Now it's just my AD&D experience, but generally, for a Wizard to get to any level worth talking about required the DM's intervention to ensure they did so*. Enemies tended to attack Fighters, protective items and Wands appeared for Wizards to use, you had ample access to new spells, etc., because pretty much the DM could kill any pointy hat at will without much need to justify it "the monsters are smart enough to know pointy hat makes boom booms".</p><p></p><p>*I don't want to minimize the impact of skilled play or luck, but if you're talking about getting a Wizard to, say, level 5 without some DM kindness seems fairly improbable. But at the end of the day, to say "yeah, so this class? You need to be this tall to ride this ride, better play a Fighter instead" has it's own issues.</p><p></p><p>As time went by, the game designers stripped away the need for DM fiat in the proceedings, much to the annoyance of those who rather liked Wizards existing at their sufferance, lol.</p><p></p><p>When people talk about buffing melee and/or nerfing casters, they rarely say anything about giving the melee the ability to actually protect the casters if they can't protect themselves and it becomes harder for them to actually do their thing. Which in turn, could lead to a scenario where the only way to play a caster in a D&D game would require DM fiat once again.</p><p></p><p>And it's interesting that it certainly seems that many people who play melee martials don't actually <strong>want </strong>to protect weaker party members, they just want to dish out damage.</p><p></p><p>I don't really want to go back to AD&D-era spellcasters. The problems with the Wizard start, and end, with the effect of their spells themselves for me. I think most players would be happy with their higher level spell slots just being "fireball, but with bigger dice". So strip out the troublesome spells and give them that, lol. Or get rid of the spells above level 5 (but that's not going to happen; D&D without level 9 spells won't "feel" like D&D to a lot of people).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="James Gasik, post: 9143759, member: 6877472"] Now it's just my AD&D experience, but generally, for a Wizard to get to any level worth talking about required the DM's intervention to ensure they did so*. Enemies tended to attack Fighters, protective items and Wands appeared for Wizards to use, you had ample access to new spells, etc., because pretty much the DM could kill any pointy hat at will without much need to justify it "the monsters are smart enough to know pointy hat makes boom booms". *I don't want to minimize the impact of skilled play or luck, but if you're talking about getting a Wizard to, say, level 5 without some DM kindness seems fairly improbable. But at the end of the day, to say "yeah, so this class? You need to be this tall to ride this ride, better play a Fighter instead" has it's own issues. As time went by, the game designers stripped away the need for DM fiat in the proceedings, much to the annoyance of those who rather liked Wizards existing at their sufferance, lol. When people talk about buffing melee and/or nerfing casters, they rarely say anything about giving the melee the ability to actually protect the casters if they can't protect themselves and it becomes harder for them to actually do their thing. Which in turn, could lead to a scenario where the only way to play a caster in a D&D game would require DM fiat once again. And it's interesting that it certainly seems that many people who play melee martials don't actually [B]want [/B]to protect weaker party members, they just want to dish out damage. I don't really want to go back to AD&D-era spellcasters. The problems with the Wizard start, and end, with the effect of their spells themselves for me. I think most players would be happy with their higher level spell slots just being "fireball, but with bigger dice". So strip out the troublesome spells and give them that, lol. Or get rid of the spells above level 5 (but that's not going to happen; D&D without level 9 spells won't "feel" like D&D to a lot of people). [/QUOTE]
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