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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Indaarys" data-source="post: 9168463" data-attributes="member: 7040941">This topic more than anything just reveals that the root problem is that a comfortable norm has been established in 5e and thus fixing its problems means violating that norm.Not a problem if you can accept some people will be upset, but it does become one if you fool yourself into believing you can have it both ways and fix the game while not upsetting someone. You need to have a vision and stick with it, and you need to be confident enough in that vision to sell that its all for the sake of better fun, no matter whose toes get stepped on by phantoms. But anyway, as to the defender role Ive found that tends to be rooted in the fact that 5es combat system doesn't actually feature active defense as a core component. Its added in after the fact through exceptions, but the only core mode of defense in the core system is passive; AC. That is the reason from a game design perspective that defenders, both the few classes that try it and just as a general role to play, aren't panning out in 5e. That isn't to say though that active defense is better than passive, nor that you couldn't do both, but when you're only doing passive, no amount of exceptions is going to build up a desirable playstyle without becoming so dense that it then becomes unplayed anyway just because it has to build up an entire core system in the design space of a Class, or even worse a subclass.</blockquote>

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