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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
The Fighter/Martial Problem (In Depth Ponderings)
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 9169156" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>The fighter has always been the most popular class. It's also a class that has changed radically with each WotC edition. </p><p>The 1e fighter was a brainless tank with the best armor, the best weapons, the best attack matrix, the fastest-scaling saving throw matrix, the highest possible native STR (shared with it's sub-classes), the most attacks/round (ditto) and the highest possible hp (shared with Paladin, until Barbarian, anyway) - no magic, no skills, no nothing... oh and it could build a moneypit castle at 9th level. It was essentiallly a living moveable mantlet for the real characters to hide behind, and a high-survivability magic item platform if you were lucky/clever.</p><p>The 2e fighter's lead in attack bonuses was slightly narrowed by THAC0, but it got crazy TWF/specialization DPR (relative to the hps of the monsters in the Monsterous Compendium, anyway). And everyone got NWPs.</p><p>(no, it's not that simple, there was weapon spec back in 1e UA, and NWPs in survival guides, it was all very messy TBH, and there were 2 or three other arugable editions in TSRs reign)</p><p>3e, %STR, max CON, weapon & armor restrictions, all gone. THAC0 becomes BAB, everyone gets extra attacks from it. Fighter's saves become terrible, caster's DC go through the roof, skills get tightly defined and fighters are the worst at them. The infamous late 3.5 Class Tier list put the Fighter in the abysmal Tier 5, one step above "class doesn't even work as written." </p><p>4e the fighter became an heroic defender, with encounter and daily exploits doing lots of 'cool' stuff, which mostly boiled down to fight coreography. Still, it was closer to balanced with casters than any edition before or since. It was also ceaselessly criticized for it.</p><p>5e the fighter loses all the cool stuff it had in 4e, has the same proficiency bonus as everyone else, and scales primarily via extra attack. S'ok for DPR.</p><p></p><p>So, really, the fighter has been, a dumb wall of meat, and the most popular clas; a whirlwind of destruction, and still the most popular class; a Tier 5 embarassment fighting it out with the Druid's animal companion for relevance, and still the most popular class; an MMO tank drawing aggro, and still the most popular class, and a good source of minimum recomended daily DPR, and still the most popular class.</p><p></p><p>The fighter's been good, bad, indifferent, overwhelming, and embarrasing (in no particular order, edition warriors, fill it in), but always the most popular.</p><p></p><p>That popularity clearly does not rest on the design, performance, or even viability of the class.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 9169156, member: 996"] The fighter has always been the most popular class. It's also a class that has changed radically with each WotC edition. The 1e fighter was a brainless tank with the best armor, the best weapons, the best attack matrix, the fastest-scaling saving throw matrix, the highest possible native STR (shared with it's sub-classes), the most attacks/round (ditto) and the highest possible hp (shared with Paladin, until Barbarian, anyway) - no magic, no skills, no nothing... oh and it could build a moneypit castle at 9th level. It was essentiallly a living moveable mantlet for the real characters to hide behind, and a high-survivability magic item platform if you were lucky/clever. The 2e fighter's lead in attack bonuses was slightly narrowed by THAC0, but it got crazy TWF/specialization DPR (relative to the hps of the monsters in the Monsterous Compendium, anyway). And everyone got NWPs. (no, it's not that simple, there was weapon spec back in 1e UA, and NWPs in survival guides, it was all very messy TBH, and there were 2 or three other arugable editions in TSRs reign) 3e, %STR, max CON, weapon & armor restrictions, all gone. THAC0 becomes BAB, everyone gets extra attacks from it. Fighter's saves become terrible, caster's DC go through the roof, skills get tightly defined and fighters are the worst at them. The infamous late 3.5 Class Tier list put the Fighter in the abysmal Tier 5, one step above "class doesn't even work as written." 4e the fighter became an heroic defender, with encounter and daily exploits doing lots of 'cool' stuff, which mostly boiled down to fight coreography. Still, it was closer to balanced with casters than any edition before or since. It was also ceaselessly criticized for it. 5e the fighter loses all the cool stuff it had in 4e, has the same proficiency bonus as everyone else, and scales primarily via extra attack. S'ok for DPR. So, really, the fighter has been, a dumb wall of meat, and the most popular clas; a whirlwind of destruction, and still the most popular class; a Tier 5 embarassment fighting it out with the Druid's animal companion for relevance, and still the most popular class; an MMO tank drawing aggro, and still the most popular class, and a good source of minimum recomended daily DPR, and still the most popular class. The fighter's been good, bad, indifferent, overwhelming, and embarrasing (in no particular order, edition warriors, fill it in), but always the most popular. That popularity clearly does not rest on the design, performance, or even viability of the class. [/QUOTE]
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The Fighter/Martial Problem (In Depth Ponderings)
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