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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 9173426" data-attributes="member: 7030563">There is no fundamental problem with classes that no one ever plays.  Perhaps such classes should just be deleted, but it is not hurting the game if no one at your table, or even no one at any table plays a particular class.Further we don't have this problem in 5E.  We certainly don't have it for fighters and we don't even have it for Monks.  People do play those classes.  They play those classes a lot and they are not unappealing at all to many players.But the classes are not this.  Some of the feats and subclasses are "trap" choices and those should be redesigned, although I don't think the problem even there is as big as implied because few people at a table will let novice players choose such trap feats or subclasses without telling them it is a trap and when they do DMs will generally allow them to reverse it.I have an example when a woman at my table took the Defensive Duelist feat at 4th level.  Defensive duelist is not a trap in general, but it is for a Rogue and she was a Rogue.   She had awesome ability rolls with an 18 and two 16s at 1st level so she was the most powerful character at the table.  I did not say anything at 4th level, because I like new players to pick their choices unless it is not going to work, and this did work at 4th level.  At 5th level during level up when she was writing down her new abilities she realized DD would conflict with uncanny dodge.  I could tell she was disappointed, but she didn't complain.  I asked her if she just wanted to pick another feat.  If your table won't do that kind of thing then the table is the problem.   In all honesty, with her crazy high ability scores she was likely more "balanced" with that wasted feat.Also, although I think there are trap subclasses, I don't think there are trap fighter subclasses.  Maybe PDK for someone who completely does not know the game.  But even with PDK there is a viable build for a certain type of narrowly-focused character.</blockquote>

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