Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 9183307" data-attributes="member: 7030563">No.  Paladins and Rangers don't opt into that, spells are an integral part of those classes.Anything you do to boost martial classes is going to be something you don't opt into and will change the aestheetic of the class.The question is supposedly how to change it to achieve this "balance" some players want and the relevant point in this discussion is that it is A LOT more about advancing the aesthetic THOSE INDIVIDUAL PLAYERS want than it is about actually achieving balance.I also noted you did not answer my question - Is a Drow Barbarian a martial?No it is not this for several reasons.Firist it is to advance their specific aesthetic, to balance with that aesthetic and to the exclusion of others that don't meet their goals.Second variety of options out of combat is not a universal commplaint.  There are people that want this, but there are also a lot that want to achieve balance in combat, and if you look at the recommendations by the "balance crowd"  most of the recommendations are primarily combat related.Finally, there are already many options and choices for out of combat already based on how you choose to distribute ability scores, subclass selection and feats.  The whole idea that martials can't be good out of combat is just plain false.  The players complaining about this just choose to build fighters that are not good out of combat.For example, an 8th Rune Knight can take her extra feat in skilled and have the same number of ASIs left as every other class.  Compared to most Rogues of the same race with the same rolls, she will have the same ability distribution, 1 more skill proficiency, advantage on Slight of Hand, Deception, Animal Handling, Intimidation and Arcana checks.  In addition to this she gets extra attack, the other combat abilities from the 3 runes, Giants might, Runic Shield, a fighting style (which can be applied to out of combat uses) and action surge.  That character can be awesome both out of combat and in combat and that is without even choosing an out of combat leaning race like Half Elf, Damphir, Hexblood or Wood Elf.Here are the page counts from the books I currently have with me that have been published after the PHB.  Page counts are all rounded up:VGTR: 4 pages of classes/subclasses, 0 pages of spellsFTOD: 5 pages of classes/subclasses, 4 pages of spellsSODQ: 3 pages on a subclass, 0 pages of spellsXGE: 53 pages of classes/subclasses, 25 pages of spellsTCE: 70 pages of classes/subclasses, 12 pages of spellsSCAG: 21 pages of classes/subclasses, 2 pages of spellsSo that is 156 pages of material on classes and subclasses and 43 pages of material on spells published since the PHB in the official game materials I have printed and on hand.  I know there are both spells and subclass options published in other books as well, so this is not a complete list.  But I don't think it is going to change that distribution significantly.</blockquote>

Verification