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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Pedantic" data-source="post: 9185402" data-attributes="member: 6690965">You're mistaking a cooperative "game" for a cooperative "activity" here.* The incentives to play well remains regardless of whether you're playing in a cooperative or a competitive environment, that goes with "game" not with "competitive." A meaningful choice requires it result in different board states, and that players be able to discriminate between board states they want and board states they don't in pursuit of their goals.Now I think it's a lot less clear that initial character creation (particularly at the level of something with such long spanning consequences as class selection) is the correct place to start putting choices in with that much impact, but I think it's completely reasonable to prefer a game where a player making choices during ability selection and level up will reliably outperform a random number generator doing the same thing, or even a simple algorithm. To avoid that, you'd either need to not print synergies into your abilities or remove choice altogether from the class chassis.*That's also a misunderstanding of competitive games, which are as often played for exploration as dominance. Half of those designs are about using other players essentially as imperfectly predictable randomizers. Through trying to achieve the game's goal, players produce novel board states and puzzles that each of them tries to solve; there's a whole class of competitive play wherein trying to win is a means, and the gameplay itself is the end. You'll get players who will happily offer advice to their opponents or essentially pause play to analyze the board collectively.</blockquote>

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