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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Warpiglet-7" data-source="post: 9187317" data-attributes="member: 7025282">Sometimes we have preferences we are shocked to learn others don’t share.  “You don’t like pizza?!”  Sometimes we are shocked to learn others like what we don’t.  “Black licorice?!  Dude you are eating….poison!”But this thread has gone so way beyond in its statements of taste as facts.  It’s kind of bonkers.1.  First, no one hates balance.  What people may not like is what they believe they would give up for things to be balanced in terms of theme and imagery.  If folks don’t think balance and theme ever are at odds in a game with archetypes, I disagree.   And at that point how far you move toward or away from one or the other is…taste.  Not moral imperative.2.  Or the age old “you are just stuck on what people can do as athletes” is not a reasonable criticism.  Many are fine with monks or others surpassing modern reality based limits. Secondly, the hard limits are not what they are made out to be.  “My class cannot jump to the moon?!  Fighters can’t have nice things!  Just because modern athletes can only lift that you are….”  No, people are not limiting characters to what people can do.  They already exceed us.  But some bounds or limit to preserve theme is a preference.  I don’t care if a fighter can break modern records!  I do care if they can hulk jump to the moon like an anime character. (Was watching with my kid recently…good bonding).  It’s my preference that they don’t because it breaks my immersion in the fantasy settings we play in.3.  Given above, I think it’s on a continuum and it’s a preference.  How hard do you push for balance with a wizard in still preserving some theme of a warrior who is perhaps heroic but not anime move capable?  It’s a preference.And if we polled folks I would guess that those who want a bigger dose of balance are more into the sorts of fiction that do not hew very close to classic fantasy fiction. I would guess those that want to preserve theme over balance are more invested into the classic things in the genre’s fiction and otherwise.4.  The perceived gulf in balance is also not a “fact” but a judgment.  Some see a lot and some see a little and some not enough to feel compelled to change.  My take is that it’s negligible before level 10.   Another opinion or judgement call.5.  Some people are FINE with asymmetrical offerings.  How many wargames have a likely winning side?  How many of us played thieves because of challenge and theme in 1e?   I play blade pact warlocks and not the hexblade kind and have a blast and shape the game as much as anyone.  5e is a cooperative game that seems to me to be on relatively easy mode at baseline.People can all like what the hell they like.  But let’s not get nutty and act like these things  are hard facts universally held.</blockquote>

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