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<blockquote data-quote="Trasvi" data-source="post: 9206379" data-attributes="member: 7023211">I guess we fundamentally disagree on this point. I haven't interviewed every single DnD player so I can't be sure, but I think there's a ton of evidence that people DO want it.My personal experience is that players are deterred from playing the non-magical fighters because the gameplay loop is boring - either by experienced players not choosing those characters in the first place or new players changing out of those classes when they realise gameplay is uninteractive. The latter I think should be avoided at all costs - you don't want players to be discouraged from DnD as a whole because they picked Champion Fighter and didn't like it.From external experience, what I'm seeing is that &quot;maneuvers for martials&quot; is consistently the most requested/discussed feature on forums/reddit. If you look for Revised/Alternative homebrews/3PP you'll easily find a dozen versions of giving maneuvers to all fighters. If you look at the current OneDnD playtest, the most highly rated features have been the maneuver-like abilities given to other martials. And if we look at other games pitching themselves as 5e alternatives or successors (DC20, Pf2e, LevelUp A5E, 13th age) martial maneuvers are a significant feature of these systems.It just comes across as pedantic. You're technically correct, but it doesn't really matter to the general discussion.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Trasvi, post: 9206379, member: 7023211"] I guess we fundamentally disagree on this point. I haven't interviewed every single DnD player so I can't be sure, but I think there's a ton of evidence that people DO want it. My personal experience is that players are deterred from playing the non-magical fighters because the gameplay loop is boring - either by experienced players not choosing those characters in the first place or new players changing out of those classes when they realise gameplay is uninteractive. The latter I think should be avoided at all costs - you don't want players to be discouraged from DnD as a whole because they picked Champion Fighter and didn't like it. From external experience, what I'm seeing is that "maneuvers for martials" is consistently the most requested/discussed feature on forums/reddit. If you look for Revised/Alternative homebrews/3PP you'll easily find a dozen versions of giving maneuvers to all fighters. If you look at the current OneDnD playtest, the most highly rated features have been the maneuver-like abilities given to other martials. And if we look at other games pitching themselves as 5e alternatives or successors (DC20, Pf2e, LevelUp A5E, 13th age) martial maneuvers are a significant feature of these systems. It just comes across as pedantic. You're technically correct, but it doesn't really matter to the general discussion. [/QUOTE]

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