Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
The Fighter/Martial Problem (In Depth Ponderings)
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 9207803" data-attributes="member: 7030563"><p>The game does not encourage one fighting style or feat over others, and when it comest ot feats the game actually encourages ASIs.</p><p></p><p>It is not the game designers that encourage these hyper specialized builds, it is the white room optimizers.</p><p></p><p></p><p>It is not damage, but then damage is not the best metric of power. Casters have plenty of extremely powerful feats.</p><p></p><p>Metamagic adept is pretty darn powerful (although not spammable). I would say Warcaster is pretty close in terms of being an extremely powerful martial feat.</p><p></p><p>Really though Fey Touched is probably the most powerful feat in the game, letting a caster get an off-list spell, Misty Step, niether count against concentration cast it for free once and then spam it. Hex, Dissonant Whispers and Command being three awesome spells mechanically. Because Dissonant Whispers usually causes AOOs on a failed save it is a very effective spell from a damage point of view too.</p><p></p><p>Shadow Touched is also very good and with Cause Fear on a Fey Wanderer Ranger using a 2nd level slot it is borderline OP.</p><p></p><p>I would put any of those four feats up against PAM in terms of power, even if you get the unicorn Halberd or Glaive.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The most straightforward way is to change your build or change how you play regardless of the sunk cost in your build.</p><p></p><p>If your DM is not letting you change fighting styles at an ASI I would agree with you. But that is fundamentally different than altering the story and plot to focus on a choice you made on your character.</p><p></p><p>Choices are choices for a reason and putting a magic polearm in a room because I chose pole arm master is akin to making a Troll vulnerable to Radiant damage because I brought holy water with me instead of acid and oil.</p><p></p><p>Two examples from in actual campaigns -</p><p>1. we walked into a study and decided to search it instead of going straight to the next room. The BBEG in the next room heard us (or maybe he was told by his familiar) in any case he escaped with the loot, we weren't abole to bring him to justice, the bad guys won that day. Shoudl the DM have fudged this and just had him attack us instead so we could have the climactic battle and go back to the town heroes?</p><p></p><p>2. My Artificer walked into a room without checking it for traps, she sprung a trap became paralyzed, enemies came out and over the course of 2 rounds was killed dead and other party members could not get to her. This was the lowest point in my 5E playing career. It was worse than the two other characters that died. Should the DM have just changed it up somehow so I would have survived.</p><p></p><p>3. The PCs were all captured and stripped of their gear (this actually has happened to me twice). In one of those we escaped through the sewer without gear and my Rogue was running around attacking enemies with a broken longsword hilt we found (as an improvised weapon). Should there have been a Rapier lying in the sewer muck so he could sneak attack? </p><p></p><p>These kinds of things, and giving a PC a specific item for no reason, would make the choices you make trivial. It would take it from shared storytelling to DM story telling and it would not be as fun IMO.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ECMO3, post: 9207803, member: 7030563"] The game does not encourage one fighting style or feat over others, and when it comest ot feats the game actually encourages ASIs. It is not the game designers that encourage these hyper specialized builds, it is the white room optimizers. It is not damage, but then damage is not the best metric of power. Casters have plenty of extremely powerful feats. Metamagic adept is pretty darn powerful (although not spammable). I would say Warcaster is pretty close in terms of being an extremely powerful martial feat. Really though Fey Touched is probably the most powerful feat in the game, letting a caster get an off-list spell, Misty Step, niether count against concentration cast it for free once and then spam it. Hex, Dissonant Whispers and Command being three awesome spells mechanically. Because Dissonant Whispers usually causes AOOs on a failed save it is a very effective spell from a damage point of view too. Shadow Touched is also very good and with Cause Fear on a Fey Wanderer Ranger using a 2nd level slot it is borderline OP. I would put any of those four feats up against PAM in terms of power, even if you get the unicorn Halberd or Glaive. The most straightforward way is to change your build or change how you play regardless of the sunk cost in your build. If your DM is not letting you change fighting styles at an ASI I would agree with you. But that is fundamentally different than altering the story and plot to focus on a choice you made on your character. Choices are choices for a reason and putting a magic polearm in a room because I chose pole arm master is akin to making a Troll vulnerable to Radiant damage because I brought holy water with me instead of acid and oil. Two examples from in actual campaigns - 1. we walked into a study and decided to search it instead of going straight to the next room. The BBEG in the next room heard us (or maybe he was told by his familiar) in any case he escaped with the loot, we weren't abole to bring him to justice, the bad guys won that day. Shoudl the DM have fudged this and just had him attack us instead so we could have the climactic battle and go back to the town heroes? 2. My Artificer walked into a room without checking it for traps, she sprung a trap became paralyzed, enemies came out and over the course of 2 rounds was killed dead and other party members could not get to her. This was the lowest point in my 5E playing career. It was worse than the two other characters that died. Should the DM have just changed it up somehow so I would have survived. 3. The PCs were all captured and stripped of their gear (this actually has happened to me twice). In one of those we escaped through the sewer without gear and my Rogue was running around attacking enemies with a broken longsword hilt we found (as an improvised weapon). Should there have been a Rapier lying in the sewer muck so he could sneak attack? These kinds of things, and giving a PC a specific item for no reason, would make the choices you make trivial. It would take it from shared storytelling to DM story telling and it would not be as fun IMO. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
The Fighter/Martial Problem (In Depth Ponderings)
Top