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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Trasvi" data-source="post: 9208058" data-attributes="member: 7023211">Maybe I wasn't clear, but I was talking specifically about Duelling + PAM spear.Base fighter with Spear as Str16 is doing D6+5 once per turn.Adding PAM you're doing (D6+5) +(D4+5) +often another (D6+5).For very low investment it's a solid DPS and tank in the early game. I'm under no illusions that it's the best and didn't mean to make it seem like I did.My deepest desire for DnD is for it to support non-magical characters equal in gameplay engagement and power to magical characters. I want to play the ascended common soldier or knight. I think there's a lot of evidence that other people feel the same way.Taking cantrip feats is admitting defeat and joining the enemy <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />.I know currently eschewing magic entirely on a fighter is going to be suboptimal , but my current character is doing just that- partially to set a personal challenge in a party of non-optimisers, and partly to explore just how much worse it is.Hence why I play a battlemaster?Actually I'm playtesting the OneDnD battlemaster currently, it's overall in a better sport but it seems that quick toss didn't make the cut for the new edition.</blockquote>