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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jgsugden" data-source="post: 7097517" data-attributes="member: 2629">The problem is really one of perspective: It exists if you believe it exists.  If you don't, it doesn't.  The most essential question is whether fighters are strong enough that they can be successful against the threats recommended by the DMG/MM when efficiently designed and played.  Efficient is a much lower standard than optimized - basically, any choices that are thematic and not counterproductive.The answer to that question is a very solid: "Yes".  Under the recommended guidelines, a reasonably well built and played fighter is going to be effective.If, however, you want to ask whether an optimized fighter is as strong as an optimized paladin, barbarian or ranger: Likely not for most of their career.  I think that after you hit 11th level the fighter really starts to hold up with that extra attack - and that the 20th level fighter is the strongest melee combatant out there with the right build - but that from levels 2 to 10 the fighter falls behind the other classes.  However, not to a degree that you can't enjoy the fighter class during those levels.  If I were to build a rebalanced fighter to try to adjust for those differences:1.) Action Surge: Move it to 5th level.  It is too powerful of an ability for level 2 dip by other classes.  2.) At 2nd level I'd give them the equivalent of the War Cleric War Priest ability to attack as a bonus action, but triggered on strength or dexterity and restoring on a short or long rest.3.) Champion fighters would gain a +1 to weapon damage at 3rd level.  That would increase to +2 at 7th level and +3 at 14th level.4.) I'd add exotic weapons to the game.  They'd be like martial weapons with an additional benefit.  Only fighters would be proficient with them and multi-classing into fighter would not add proficiency with them (although you could get them with the feat that adds 4 weapons).  The added benefit would be an effective increase of a die size (d8 to d10 or roll one extra die for 2d6 weapons and discard the lowest d6) over the martial equivalent, adding a two handed finesse weapon (d10), and then some low damage weapons that can do something fun on a hit (mancatcher can be used to grapple at reach, spiked chain can be used to restrain a foe, etc...)Optimizers would be able to bring that up to snuff with other classes and the Champion would be balanced out.  Also, no more double dip for action surge.</blockquote>

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