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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7100299" data-attributes="member: 996">Nod.&nbsp; Maybe literal/gross-numeric 'scaling' isn't quite what they're getting at?&nbsp; At 1st level, Second Wind restores, on average 6 or 7 hps.&nbsp; A 1st level fighter has between 9 (CON 8, yeah, right) and 15 hps (CON 20, yeah, right).&nbsp; So, really, about half your hps, which is nothing to sneeze at.&nbsp; Leaving CON out of it, healing 2-11 hps when you have 10, is pretty good, on average a little better than half your hps, maybe all of 'em (not that you can use it when you're at 0).&nbsp; At 2nd, though, healing 3-12 hps out of 15 is not quite a snazzy, it's still about half you hps on average, but if you're at 1 hp and roll max, it doesn't /quite/ get you back up to full.&nbsp; d10 +20, OTOH, when you have over 100 hps, not that big a deal anymore, is it?&nbsp; It's scaled, but it's scaled /slower/ than the hps you have to need restoring and the damage you're likely to take.&nbsp; 5 hps/level, conversely, scales from healing about half a paladin's hps (before CON) at 1st level, to healing almost all of 'em at 20th.&nbsp; Though the action cost and the fact you can divvy it up vs recharge it on a short rest are also very significant differences.&nbsp; :shrug:&nbsp;The value of an action scales with level.&nbsp; Well, as long as you have actions that scale with level, that is.&nbsp; The fighter does: the attack action w/extra attack.&nbsp; Use your Surge for anything else (as is often suggested when the complaint 'fighters are useless outside of combat' comes up) and it's not scaling so much.&nbsp; FWIW (not much, IMHO, but I though I'd mention it).&nbsp;There's nothing unique about getting a little more of what everyone else gets.&nbsp; That's just the crux of traditional fighter design/concept, really, it's still a 'bigger numbers' class.&nbsp; It gets more hps (mostly), attacks more often (eventually), hits for more (at will) damage (on average, over 6-8 encounters), gets higher stats or more feats, acts twice in one round of choice between short rests, etc...&nbsp; If it did anything unique the hew &amp; cry would go out &quot;everyone should be able to do that!&quot;&nbsp; Heck, that happened repeatedly throughout the playtest.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7100299, member: 996"] Nod. Maybe literal/gross-numeric 'scaling' isn't quite what they're getting at? At 1st level, Second Wind restores, on average 6 or 7 hps. A 1st level fighter has between 9 (CON 8, yeah, right) and 15 hps (CON 20, yeah, right). So, really, about half your hps, which is nothing to sneeze at. Leaving CON out of it, healing 2-11 hps when you have 10, is pretty good, on average a little better than half your hps, maybe all of 'em (not that you can use it when you're at 0). At 2nd, though, healing 3-12 hps out of 15 is not quite a snazzy, it's still about half you hps on average, but if you're at 1 hp and roll max, it doesn't /quite/ get you back up to full. d10 +20, OTOH, when you have over 100 hps, not that big a deal anymore, is it? It's scaled, but it's scaled /slower/ than the hps you have to need restoring and the damage you're likely to take. 5 hps/level, conversely, scales from healing about half a paladin's hps (before CON) at 1st level, to healing almost all of 'em at 20th. Though the action cost and the fact you can divvy it up vs recharge it on a short rest are also very significant differences. :shrug: The value of an action scales with level. Well, as long as you have actions that scale with level, that is. The fighter does: the attack action w/extra attack. Use your Surge for anything else (as is often suggested when the complaint 'fighters are useless outside of combat' comes up) and it's not scaling so much. FWIW (not much, IMHO, but I though I'd mention it). There's nothing unique about getting a little more of what everyone else gets. That's just the crux of traditional fighter design/concept, really, it's still a 'bigger numbers' class. It gets more hps (mostly), attacks more often (eventually), hits for more (at will) damage (on average, over 6-8 encounters), gets higher stats or more feats, acts twice in one round of choice between short rests, etc... If it did anything unique the hew & cry would go out "everyone should be able to do that!" Heck, that happened repeatedly throughout the playtest. [/QUOTE]

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