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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Crazy Jerome" data-source="post: 5951375" data-attributes="member: 54877">Here's the nasty, irreconcilable problem: If the creators of D&D had available and decided to use the Next concept of themes and backgrounds, we wouldn't have had the exact list of classes that we got in early D&D. But nevertheless, they didn't have those options, and thus we have this long tradition. It's like a messy divorce, and the classes are the kids. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f615.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":confused:" title="Confused    :confused:"  data-smilie="5"data-shortname=":confused:" /> All those guys wanted to do was to make another character concept possible to play. Boom, here's a way to do it, slammed into the system. Some of these got refined and made it into official rules, while others never did. (We had a lot of fun with the "half-ogre" and the "duelist" from Dragon magazine. Those never went much further.) You can't go back and clean up that "design" without something getting changed--or not changed but rammed into a spot where it doesn't really fit. Ever time you make a choice here, you'll tick off a bunch of fans, no matter what you choose. So I'm coming around to the idea that has been forming in some of these discussions, though I haven't seen it explicitly stated yet: Maybe things like the paladin need to be a class and a theme. The class is as close to tradition as they can make it. The theme is designed as clean as they can make it, and probably designed to sit on top of the fighter, or maybe cleric if that works better. Every group can decide how "paladin" is done in their game. Since I think that most of us that fall on the "clean design" preference are also largely the ones that aren't too interested in exact labels, call the theme something else, like "champion". Just make sure there is at least one such theme that you can stick on the fighter or cleric and end up with a "paladin character".</blockquote>

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