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<blockquote data-quote="Mercule" data-source="post: 4265584" data-attributes="member: 5100">Agreed -- by the dictionary or real world.&nbsp; 4e has a couple of significant things working against it, though.1) Momentum.&nbsp; Law and Chaos have been opposites in D&amp;D for longer than Good and Evil have.&nbsp; They can try to change the meanings, but it is only slightly more likely to work than if they started using the word &quot;elf&quot; for what has always been gnomes -- short, woodsy fey with a knack for magic.2) Pattern recognition.&nbsp; Humans have a tendency to see patterns.&nbsp; Pushed too far, this is the &quot;needless symmetry&quot; that chaffed 4e designers.&nbsp; Regardless, it's very real.&nbsp; We have five alignments, one is &quot;other&quot;, two are textbook opposites, and two are phrases that include the names of the opposites and an uncommon adjective that appears to modify those opposites.&nbsp; What are the odds that the human brain is going to track them as special cases and opposites?The names, alone, that WotC chose to employ for CE and LG are just plain dumb.&nbsp; In all honesty, I have a hard time believing that you could get five people in a room brainstorming this and no one red flagged it as a problem.&nbsp; The definitions from the PHB don't actually improve anything, either.Good is &quot;freedom and kindness&quot; while LG is &quot;civilization and order&quot;.&nbsp; So, &quot;freedom and kindness&quot; are a baseline &quot;good&quot; and valuing &quot;civilization and order&quot; is a special case?&nbsp; Does that mean that Good is more good than LG?&nbsp; The opposite?&nbsp; Separate but equal?&nbsp; That last one seems to be the case and is an issue because it begs the question, &quot;If both are equally 'good', why does one warrant a modifier and the other doesn't?&quot;&nbsp; When the &quot;non-standard&quot;, orderly good includes a preference for working within the system for a positive change, about the only thing that's left for unmodified good is open rebellion and revolt.I can get the differences between Evil and CE.&nbsp; One still wants to live here when they get done remodeling and the other wants to bulldoze the whole thing.&nbsp; I can even get behind having only one term include the adjective.&nbsp; It's the whole good end of the scale that hurts my head.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mercule, post: 4265584, member: 5100"] Agreed -- by the dictionary or real world. 4e has a couple of significant things working against it, though. 1) Momentum. Law and Chaos have been opposites in D&D for longer than Good and Evil have. They can try to change the meanings, but it is only slightly more likely to work than if they started using the word "elf" for what has always been gnomes -- short, woodsy fey with a knack for magic. 2) Pattern recognition. Humans have a tendency to see patterns. Pushed too far, this is the "needless symmetry" that chaffed 4e designers. Regardless, it's very real. We have five alignments, one is "other", two are textbook opposites, and two are phrases that include the names of the opposites and an uncommon adjective that appears to modify those opposites. What are the odds that the human brain is going to track them as special cases and opposites? The names, alone, that WotC chose to employ for CE and LG are just plain dumb. In all honesty, I have a hard time believing that you could get five people in a room brainstorming this and no one red flagged it as a problem. The definitions from the PHB don't actually improve anything, either. Good is "freedom and kindness" while LG is "civilization and order". So, "freedom and kindness" are a baseline "good" and valuing "civilization and order" is a special case? Does that mean that Good is more good than LG? The opposite? Separate but equal? That last one seems to be the case and is an issue because it begs the question, "If both are equally 'good', why does one warrant a modifier and the other doesn't?" When the "non-standard", orderly good includes a preference for working within the system for a positive change, about the only thing that's left for unmodified good is open rebellion and revolt. I can get the differences between Evil and CE. One still wants to live here when they get done remodeling and the other wants to bulldoze the whole thing. I can even get behind having only one term include the adjective. It's the whole good end of the scale that hurts my head. [/QUOTE]

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