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<blockquote data-quote="the Jester" data-source="post: 7436142" data-attributes="member: 1210">Well- I've seen the TWF guy in the same party as a sharpshooter, yet the TWF guy seemed to be just fine. (Playing a PH ranger, no less!) Somehow, even without the bonus damage, he felt like he contributed just fine.I haven't actually had the sorlock thing in my game, but I run games with mixed level parties, and even the low level guys who are with the sharpshooting/GWFing pcs manage to feel like they are contributing to the group. The bottom line is that pcs in my campaign seem to measure themselves against their adventures, rather than against their adventuring buddies.Sure, but the assumptions people are making when adding the math is aren't universally true- specifically, I don't believe that DPR is the be-all and end-all of the game. I suppose if the DM only awards xp for monsters slain or defeated in combat, rather than for challenges overcome, it shifts the emphasis further toward &quot;DPR is king&quot;, but that's not every game. Given that the things he is pointing at- multiclassing and feats- are explicitly optional rules to begin with, I really do think this is something of a mountain-from-molehill discussion. Don't like that -5/+10? Just don't use feats, or at least those particular ones. Don't like the sorlock's damage output? Don't allow multiclassing. It really seems like a simple solution to me, just like &quot;don't use the flanking optional rule&quot; is a great solution to &quot;the optional flanking rule makes it too easy to gain advantage.&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="the Jester, post: 7436142, member: 1210"] Well- I've seen the TWF guy in the same party as a sharpshooter, yet the TWF guy seemed to be just fine. (Playing a PH ranger, no less!) Somehow, even without the bonus damage, he felt like he contributed just fine. I haven't actually had the sorlock thing in my game, but I run games with mixed level parties, and even the low level guys who are with the sharpshooting/GWFing pcs manage to feel like they are contributing to the group. The bottom line is that pcs in my campaign seem to measure themselves against their adventures, rather than against their adventuring buddies. Sure, but the assumptions people are making when adding the math is aren't universally true- specifically, I don't believe that DPR is the be-all and end-all of the game. I suppose if the DM only awards xp for monsters slain or defeated in combat, rather than for challenges overcome, it shifts the emphasis further toward "DPR is king", but that's not every game. Given that the things he is pointing at- multiclassing and feats- are explicitly optional rules to begin with, I really do think this is something of a mountain-from-molehill discussion. Don't like that -5/+10? Just don't use feats, or at least those particular ones. Don't like the sorlock's damage output? Don't allow multiclassing. It really seems like a simple solution to me, just like "don't use the flanking optional rule" is a great solution to "the optional flanking rule makes it too easy to gain advantage." [/QUOTE]

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