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The final word on DPR, feats and class balance
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<blockquote data-quote="Oofta" data-source="post: 7436513" data-attributes="member: 6801845"><p>Concerning dagger throwers, I have a couple of issues. First, not every option has to be optimal in terms of DPR. The advantage the dagger thrower should have is flexibility in melee vs short distance range and ability to hide weapons. Why should they be DPR equivalent to every other option? I may like the idea of wielding a wet noodle as my weapon, doesn't mean there has to be a wet noodle build that's optimal.</p><p></p><p>But if you go two-weapon fighting and daggers you get a bonus attack whether ranged or melee while having weapons that are easily concealed. May not matter for every campaign or every player. But there are reasons soldiers carry rifles into combat not revolvers. Or do you think if we had a modern D&D they should be made somehow comparable so that they're "balanced"?</p><p></p><p>For hand-crossbows, you have to have a free hand to load your crossbow. A generous DM may ignore that rule, allow a bandoleer of loaded crossbows (fire, drop, load, fire pull out next one) or they may not. Once again, depends on campaign. Personally I do think hand crossbows are little more than toys and IMHO should go back to doing 1 HP of damage and be poison delivery mechanisms. But it's a minor issue I ignore because some people have fun with it.</p><p></p><p>I do not think it's a virtue that there's a one-or-two point gap, I just think it's an overblown issue that has always been there in all editions. It's futile to complain about stuff like this for a few reasons. First, it's mostly in the eye of the beholder. Second, it's going to vary on a game by game basis. Hitting a lot of high AC targets who target people with the lowest AC first? That GWM doesn't look so great. Third, [MENTION=12731]CapnZapp[/MENTION] is pining for the impossible. It's not feasible to have a game as complex as D&D be completely balanced or to have as many options as it does and expect one set of encounter building guidelines that will work for all groups. He's asking for something that has never existed and will never exist. Add an option to increase the damage of dagger throwers? If the math shows that dagger throwers are now half a point better under ideal circumstances, it will now become the "go to" build and some people will consider it broken.</p><p></p><p>I think 5E does a better job of balancing different builds and features than previous editions (ignoring 4E because it's approach was so different). In addition, I, and many others have given the OP many, many suggestions on many, many threads on how to address his problems. He doesn't accept them because they're not "official". Or he just likes to throw the same stupid complaint out every few weeks to see what kind of response he'll get. Not sure.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Oofta, post: 7436513, member: 6801845"] Concerning dagger throwers, I have a couple of issues. First, not every option has to be optimal in terms of DPR. The advantage the dagger thrower should have is flexibility in melee vs short distance range and ability to hide weapons. Why should they be DPR equivalent to every other option? I may like the idea of wielding a wet noodle as my weapon, doesn't mean there has to be a wet noodle build that's optimal. But if you go two-weapon fighting and daggers you get a bonus attack whether ranged or melee while having weapons that are easily concealed. May not matter for every campaign or every player. But there are reasons soldiers carry rifles into combat not revolvers. Or do you think if we had a modern D&D they should be made somehow comparable so that they're "balanced"? For hand-crossbows, you have to have a free hand to load your crossbow. A generous DM may ignore that rule, allow a bandoleer of loaded crossbows (fire, drop, load, fire pull out next one) or they may not. Once again, depends on campaign. Personally I do think hand crossbows are little more than toys and IMHO should go back to doing 1 HP of damage and be poison delivery mechanisms. But it's a minor issue I ignore because some people have fun with it. I do not think it's a virtue that there's a one-or-two point gap, I just think it's an overblown issue that has always been there in all editions. It's futile to complain about stuff like this for a few reasons. First, it's mostly in the eye of the beholder. Second, it's going to vary on a game by game basis. Hitting a lot of high AC targets who target people with the lowest AC first? That GWM doesn't look so great. Third, [MENTION=12731]CapnZapp[/MENTION] is pining for the impossible. It's not feasible to have a game as complex as D&D be completely balanced or to have as many options as it does and expect one set of encounter building guidelines that will work for all groups. He's asking for something that has never existed and will never exist. Add an option to increase the damage of dagger throwers? If the math shows that dagger throwers are now half a point better under ideal circumstances, it will now become the "go to" build and some people will consider it broken. I think 5E does a better job of balancing different builds and features than previous editions (ignoring 4E because it's approach was so different). In addition, I, and many others have given the OP many, many suggestions on many, many threads on how to address his problems. He doesn't accept them because they're not "official". Or he just likes to throw the same stupid complaint out every few weeks to see what kind of response he'll get. Not sure. [/QUOTE]
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