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The final word on DPR, feats and class balance
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<blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 7437274" data-attributes="member: 6785785"><p>Sure. I said that it would likely take several corrections for him to get what he wants, which he said himself in the OP. Having base damage determined by class rather than by weapon or cantrip could possibly work, or be one piece of the puzzle. Simply scaling the problem cantrips a bit would seem to be another. </p><p></p><p>But I’ll also stand by my initial assessment that he and his players stop seeing these overpowered feats and cantrips as being options. Instead think of them as cheats. Or as putting the game on eady mode. </p><p></p><p>Again, I don’t think this alone will solve the problem...but I think a shift in expectation would likely help them. </p><p></p><p>What would you suggest they do?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It is a bit. He’s very critical of the design choices, but dismisses input from anyone else. It’s odd. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Oh you play 5E? For some reason I didn’t think you did.</p><p></p><p>Never had occasion? I didn’t say a game without combat. I said a game with less combat. </p><p></p><p>Would the combat oriented feats be more important in a game with more combat or a game with less? Seems simple.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Ah, so I can’t “take a shot” at his charged posts, but you can casually take a shot at those who disagree? </p><p></p><p>Mostly, when it comes to this topic, I think he has some points, but I think the way he makes those points can be needlessly inflammatory and that the assumptions he makes about what his points mean are not nearly as universal as he seems to think. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I disagree. Everything he posts indicates that DPR is by far the major focus of his game. Which is fine, if that’s what he and his players want. However, I think they may be playing the wrong game...or the wrong edition...if that’s what they prefer.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I’ll grant that Sharpshooter has something for it beyond the increased damage. But still....being good with a weapon is kind of baked into the idea of a Fighter, no? Weapon Style choice, or in the past Weapon Specialization, grant benefits to a specific weapon for the character, and each Fighter (or other martial class for 5E) can choose what option he’d like. Having Feats that cause the character to be even more gooder with the weapon seems off, to me. I think those Feats are flawed. I don’t think they really add anything to a character concept that character class doesn’t already cover. </p><p></p><p>They exist as holdovers from previous editions. More damage and more attacks. If the flaws were strong enough that I felt they were a problem for my game, I’d likely discuss it with my players and houserule some kind of solution. I wouldn’t assume that everyone else had the same problems with these feats, and that the only solution would be to have a 5.5 or “Advanced Options” book. I’d realize that my issue with those feats...or cantrips or class features or spells or whatever....were my issues, and that if I was not willing to fix the problem, then it would remain a problem.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="hawkeyefan, post: 7437274, member: 6785785"] Sure. I said that it would likely take several corrections for him to get what he wants, which he said himself in the OP. Having base damage determined by class rather than by weapon or cantrip could possibly work, or be one piece of the puzzle. Simply scaling the problem cantrips a bit would seem to be another. But I’ll also stand by my initial assessment that he and his players stop seeing these overpowered feats and cantrips as being options. Instead think of them as cheats. Or as putting the game on eady mode. Again, I don’t think this alone will solve the problem...but I think a shift in expectation would likely help them. What would you suggest they do? It is a bit. He’s very critical of the design choices, but dismisses input from anyone else. It’s odd. Oh you play 5E? For some reason I didn’t think you did. Never had occasion? I didn’t say a game without combat. I said a game with less combat. Would the combat oriented feats be more important in a game with more combat or a game with less? Seems simple. Ah, so I can’t “take a shot” at his charged posts, but you can casually take a shot at those who disagree? Mostly, when it comes to this topic, I think he has some points, but I think the way he makes those points can be needlessly inflammatory and that the assumptions he makes about what his points mean are not nearly as universal as he seems to think. I disagree. Everything he posts indicates that DPR is by far the major focus of his game. Which is fine, if that’s what he and his players want. However, I think they may be playing the wrong game...or the wrong edition...if that’s what they prefer. I’ll grant that Sharpshooter has something for it beyond the increased damage. But still....being good with a weapon is kind of baked into the idea of a Fighter, no? Weapon Style choice, or in the past Weapon Specialization, grant benefits to a specific weapon for the character, and each Fighter (or other martial class for 5E) can choose what option he’d like. Having Feats that cause the character to be even more gooder with the weapon seems off, to me. I think those Feats are flawed. I don’t think they really add anything to a character concept that character class doesn’t already cover. They exist as holdovers from previous editions. More damage and more attacks. If the flaws were strong enough that I felt they were a problem for my game, I’d likely discuss it with my players and houserule some kind of solution. I wouldn’t assume that everyone else had the same problems with these feats, and that the only solution would be to have a 5.5 or “Advanced Options” book. I’d realize that my issue with those feats...or cantrips or class features or spells or whatever....were my issues, and that if I was not willing to fix the problem, then it would remain a problem. [/QUOTE]
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