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The final word on DPR, feats and class balance
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<blockquote data-quote="Warpiglet" data-source="post: 7438524" data-attributes="member: 6689161"><p>It is interesting to read some of the different takes on this thread. It would be interesting to know how some posters would summarize the OP position in three or four lines. It seems clear to me.</p><p></p><p>I generally disagree with the position while respecting the desire for every sort of character to have an impact.</p><p></p><p>Of note, the group is really the thing with DM as a lead. A DM could say that the desire is to have a lot of cooperation and to tone down optimization to the extent that different kinds of characters. There is a freedom in making something cool without being beholden to MOAR damage or whatever.</p><p></p><p>I am DMing a 5e campaign currently. We're fourth level. The only outlier is a forge cleric who takes spells and has scavenged splint in order to have a fabulous AC. </p><p></p><p>I am still trying to figure out at which point GWM and SS are out of hand. Is it by level five? I don't think two attacks with these feats would be outrageous. When do FIGHTERS get three? 11th? </p><p></p><p>I would like to know what the concern really is about. Is this about fighters of 11th level or higher with GWM or SS? </p><p></p><p>You see, when we operationalize the problem and stop with generalizations, we can actually take a hard look at things. I know I need to do a better job too.</p><p></p><p>When we are talking about spellcasters running away with the show are we talking about with or without disadvantage in melee range? </p><p></p><p>If we are talking about sorcerers, what level are they gonzo with cantrips and metamagic? It matters, I think. When we say they can kick butt this way plus have utility, how many spells do they have left for utility after doing metamagic that matched a featless fighter?</p><p></p><p>If we get down to brass tacks, are those with balance concerns really just concerned about a few corner cases? If so, the remedy for them would not be to throw out the whole system but much more localized.</p><p></p><p>Unless they just hate the system and want to return to an earlier one...in which case it would be great if those books were still around (I would part with mine for cheap as an aside!).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Warpiglet, post: 7438524, member: 6689161"] It is interesting to read some of the different takes on this thread. It would be interesting to know how some posters would summarize the OP position in three or four lines. It seems clear to me. I generally disagree with the position while respecting the desire for every sort of character to have an impact. Of note, the group is really the thing with DM as a lead. A DM could say that the desire is to have a lot of cooperation and to tone down optimization to the extent that different kinds of characters. There is a freedom in making something cool without being beholden to MOAR damage or whatever. I am DMing a 5e campaign currently. We're fourth level. The only outlier is a forge cleric who takes spells and has scavenged splint in order to have a fabulous AC. I am still trying to figure out at which point GWM and SS are out of hand. Is it by level five? I don't think two attacks with these feats would be outrageous. When do FIGHTERS get three? 11th? I would like to know what the concern really is about. Is this about fighters of 11th level or higher with GWM or SS? You see, when we operationalize the problem and stop with generalizations, we can actually take a hard look at things. I know I need to do a better job too. When we are talking about spellcasters running away with the show are we talking about with or without disadvantage in melee range? If we are talking about sorcerers, what level are they gonzo with cantrips and metamagic? It matters, I think. When we say they can kick butt this way plus have utility, how many spells do they have left for utility after doing metamagic that matched a featless fighter? If we get down to brass tacks, are those with balance concerns really just concerned about a few corner cases? If so, the remedy for them would not be to throw out the whole system but much more localized. Unless they just hate the system and want to return to an earlier one...in which case it would be great if those books were still around (I would part with mine for cheap as an aside!). [/QUOTE]
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