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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Warpiglet" data-source="post: 7438745" data-attributes="member: 6689161">You make some good points.  I will address one in particular and suggest another consideration.Yes, I am particularly talking about cantrips that are upcast since this was referenced in the OP.IF we do not use them and the fighter uses at-will attacks instead of big punch spells or whatever, what is the rub?  The main complaint is that the sorcerer can do what featless fighter can do all day long but better.  If they are not using cantrips but spells, the utility of-at will attacks is clear and there is no problem.  I looked at available slots a moment ago.  There are only so many.If we only used spells with saves to avoid disadvantage, we are probably getting rid of the main cantrip 'offenders' like eldritch blast/fire bolt and if we are using 1st level spells or higher, we are using spells that are supposed to net a great deal of utility for the caster oft cited in this thread.  Thereafter, we are again into finite resources or at-will cantrips.A lot of interesting ideas in the thread.  I have tried to take a step back.  However, now more than before I believe feats are what is leading to the OP's main concerns--even if he says they do not.He suggested that a sorcerer can essentially out-fighter a fighter if there are no feats.  Sure, if a fighter is guarding him!  If the sorcerer is not using at-will cantrips then he is burning resources which are supposed to represent versatility and big punch abilities.  They are finite.  And that is fine/working as intended.In the meantime, even the featless fighter is attacking at-will without disruption.My a priori assumption is that combat is not always neat and that anyone can be attacked.  If the sorcerer does as much damage as a fighter or is at least close with cantrips, the fighter still has identity and purpose in leading the way and soaking hits.</blockquote>

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