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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mistwell" data-source="post: 7439301" data-attributes="member: 2525">The point of that line of the conversation was to establish the point that DPR is not the goal of the game, because other things can help end encounters as well as damage depending on the circumstance. Once you establish that as fact, then we can talk about the value of the fighter options not taken because of the options taken to focus on damage.  We were establishing opportunity costs. For example, when someone says they are taking the +2 to attack with ranged weapon option for fighter to make up for the -5 from the feat, we can now talk about the value of losing out on Defense Dueling, Protection, Two weapon fighting, etc.. And once he says he is using all his battle master superiority dice on precision attack to make up for the -5 from the feat, we can now talk about the value of losing out on Goading Attack, Maneuvering Attack, Menacing Attack, Parry, Pushing Attacking, Trip Attack, etc.. And once he says he is focusing on damage, and takes sharp shooter (sometimes at first level even), then we can talk about the value of losing out on all those other feats with that feat slot too.And once he says the rest of the party is helping out the fighter to do more damage by casting spells to grant the fighter advantage like faerie fire (which the OP did in fact say recently) then we can talk about the value of losing out on all those other spells that spell caster could have cast that round with that spell slot...like charm person, etc..You can't figure out the role of the fighter and whether fighters are better off focusing on something other than just offense until you at least start out with a simple explanation for why non-damaging strategies might be better in this game depending on the circumstance in general, which the charm person example served well. But if you don't like charm person because you can't get past that it was a spellcaster example to establish that non-damaging strategies can be more helpful sometimes in this game, I can very easily craft an example which involves moving a foe, which fighters can do in a variety of ways.</blockquote>

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