Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 7443714" data-attributes="member: 16814">Whoa, slow your roll, what level split are your talking with your sorlock and how the heck do your get d6+1+con = d10+con?  Ave rolls are 5+Con per level vs 6+Con per level with starting of 7 plus con vs 10 plus con.  By 10th, the difference in hitpoints is 52 sorcerer vs 64 for fighters, and fighters are more likely to prioritize CON and go with heavy armor while the Dragon Sorcerer is sitting at AC 13+DEX.  DEX is far more important to the sorcerer than to the Fighter.As for the split, even a 2/X split just to dip EB plus agonizing sets the sorlock back 2 levels on spell level.  The fighter gets 3 attacks a round the same level the sorlock just gets their second ASI and 4th level spells.  For this, they get a few extra 1st level slots, a slightly better cantrip option that firebolt (which, as a dragon sorc, they get to add their CHA to anyway), and a few more hitpoints.  You can't twin an EB, so that option is out.  The dragon sorc, for your purposes, is really better off going straight sorc -- warlock really nets them nothing useful and slows down their spell progression.To sum up, you have a sorcer with 58 hitpoints at 11th level getting EB for 3d10+15 (31.5) or twinned FB for 6d8+10 (37) and AC 13+DEX vs the Fighter at 71 hitpoints, AC 18, with a greatweapon doing 6d6+15 (40 - average on 6d6 with GWF is 25 instead of 21).  The fighter is ahead of even the spam best cast (twinned firebolt) and has the benefit of being able to do it all to 1 target and take hits better.  Oh, and also has a free ASI.  This is without ANY fighter subclass, of which most will increase the basic DPR calculation for the fighter, against the best case subclass for sorcerer.Even in a narrow DPR race, the fighter's doing well without feats and using the worst of the fighting styles.For sword and board, the fighter's at 3d8+21 or 34.5, which is comparable.  AC is 20, still has free ASI.  Going with a PAM GWF build, it's 3d10r2+15+d4+5 or 41 damage.  An archer is 3d8+15 x 110% (for the extra accuracy) or 31.35, which is the first below EB spam, but it's awful close.I think you're making that build out to be far more than it is.  If you go warlock, which is a caster class that focuses on cantrip damage and limited other spellcasting, you're on par to slightly below.  If you go with Dragon Sorcerer and focus on cantrip damage, using your other spells to fuel twinning cantrips (bleh), then you can slightly outpace the fighter so long as you're okay with splitting the damage up between two creatures.  If that bothers you, ban metamagic from cantrips and the problem solves itself nicely. Or up the cost for cantrips from 1 sorcery point to 2.  Or accept that the player that wants to play a sorcerer and just spam twinned firebolts all day long is going to be slightly more effective as a baseline fighter.  I really don't see how that's a huge problem when they could be actually using their spells to do things rather than burning them to fuel twinned firebolts.  I'd honestly be much more upset about the boring character than the damage they do.</blockquote>

Verification