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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Zaruthustran" data-source="post: 367150" data-attributes="member: 1457">To your 1, that's not really viable or even realistic. Even if we're standing toe to toe, both hands inching toward our sword hilts during a tense negotiation, *somebody* is going to get the drop on the other person. And until your guard is up and you're in your fighting stance, you're flat-footed. That's what flat-footed *is*.Ever play Hands? It's that game where I hold my hands palm up, and you place your hands palm down over mine, and I try to slap the tops of your hands and you try to jerk your hands away before I can slap them. Well, you know my attack is coming. But it still comes down to a matter of Initiative. The problem with your point #2 is that combat takes forever, as everyone stipulates precise "ready" actions and people argue over whether the wording was precise enough. Then once combat actually starts, everyone has to remember what the readied actions were and whether what actually happens is close enough to their readied action definitions to trigger a response. Ugh. Not fun. Anyway, here's what the thread originator said:Actually, the flat-footed thing is exactly what happens in real life. Think back to real world combat experience if you have it (even if it's just fights in high school), otherwise look at combat accounts or even movies. Until the fight starts, the fight hasn't started. Look at the end of The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly. Those three guys knew a fight was coming, but Blondie was quicker on the draw. In D&D terms, that'd be:DM: You three square off, all slowly reaching for your guns.Angel Eyes: I pull my gun and fire!DM: Hang on there, that means that combat's starting. Everyone roll initiative. [combat starts]Angel Eyes: 17!Blondie: 18! I draw and fire!DM: Okay, you hit. Angel Eyes, you're dead.You could run that encounter another way, and say that combat starts when the three square off. Then they all delay, all the way until they can't delay any more. At that point, someone has to act--in this case Angel Eyes drawing his gun. Too bad Blondie has a higher initiative bonus and gets to go first.From the SRD:"If two or more delaying combatants both want to act on the same initiative count, the one with the highest bonus gets to go first."Or you could run it a third way: Blondie gets the initiative, and Readies an action to shoot Angel Eyes if Angel Eyes draws his gun. When Angel Eyes' turn comes up and he draws, Blondie draws and fires (he has Quickdraw). Blam.Here's the situation from the thread originator:So if the PCs are quick they're able to charge before the guards can react. What's the problem with that? It's a fair roll. And if a PC is unusually fast (12+ Dex) or has a knack for getting the drop on people in a fight (Improved Initiative), well, that's why he's a hero.Again I'll refer to the Hands game. I know you're about to slap my hands. I'm ready for it. The instant I see your hands so much as twitch, I'm planning on yanking my hands away. Yet you smack my hands. How can this be? Well, hey, you're just faster--in D&D terms, you won the initiative roll. Tough luck for me.If you EBG wants the parley to go his way, he should hire dextrous archers with Improved Initiative. He should stand behind his bodyguards, so no one can charge him (charges must be in a straight line). He should stand a good distance away--farther than a single Move can cover. He should get his mage to use his protective spells, instead of just standing there waiting for something to happen.If the EBG is dumb enough to hire slow guards and leave himself open to a charge, he deserves what he gets. -zPS: If you want, you could run the encounter as being "in combat" at the start of the parley. Then have all your guards do Ready actions to shoot the party if they attack the EBG's group. But then, your PCs could Ready actions to attack the EBG if negotiations fail. And it's a mess.So, much better to just rely on good ol' Initiative.</blockquote>

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