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<blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 9339418" data-attributes="member: 7006">This is probably where a divide occurs between people, because in my opinion there's absolutely no reason why 'collective storytelling' can't be a game.&nbsp; Fiasco is a game and that's completely about 'collective storytelling'.&nbsp; And theatrical improvisation is entirely about games... that's why they are called 'improv games'.Now do these things like Fiasco or improv reduce / remove a 'randomizer' element (such as dice) like a lot of games have?&nbsp; Sure.&nbsp; Take away the dice and I'm sure it feels less like a game for some people.&nbsp; But a person's feelings on what does or does not make a game has no impact on whether something actually IS a game or not.&nbsp; Most of us probably feel like roleplaying games should have dice and that the adjudication of action comes from the rolling dice, because that is what RPGs have always traditionally had and thus what we are used to.&nbsp; And if we remove the dice, we remove the feeling of familiarity that we expect from an RPG.&nbsp; But just because we feel like it's less of a game, doesn't mean that it actually isn't one.&nbsp; We can collectively create stories with or without any dice rolling or extensive rules for adjudication and have it be just as much of a game as ones we are just used to playing due to experience.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="DEFCON 1, post: 9339418, member: 7006"] This is probably where a divide occurs between people, because in my opinion there's absolutely no reason why 'collective storytelling' can't be a game. [I]Fiasco[/I] is a game and that's completely about 'collective storytelling'. And theatrical improvisation is entirely about games... that's why they are called 'improv games'. Now do these things like [I]Fiasco[/I] or improv reduce / remove a 'randomizer' element (such as dice) like a lot of games have? Sure. Take away the dice and I'm sure it [I]feels[/I] less like a game for some people. But a person's feelings on what does or does not make a game has no impact on whether something actually IS a game or not. Most of us probably [I]feel[/I] like roleplaying games should have dice and that the adjudication of action comes from the rolling dice, because that is what RPGs have always traditionally had and thus what we are used to. And if we remove the dice, we remove the feeling of familiarity that we expect from an RPG. But just because we [I]feel[/I] like it's less of a game, doesn't mean that it actually isn't one. We can collectively create stories with or without any dice rolling or extensive rules for adjudication and have it be just as much of a game as ones we are just used to playing due to experience. [/QUOTE]

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