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Message: <blockquote data-quote="howandwhy99" data-source="post: 3773152" data-attributes="member: 3192">I'm saying Rule-Think is a major issue with 3rd edition and I'd rather it not be such a hurdle in future designs.  Our group has played for over two years without needing to refer to the rules and it has been very, very fun.  That's my experience. I'm not trying to disprove any assertion on your part.  I've played many RPGs and I prefer this style over any other.  Also, I think this is a side issue, but if someone make fun of another person, then that's on them.  And if you chose to play in a game that was in a style you found "unfun", that's nothing on the DM.  Perhaps he or she wasn't clear enough beforehand?Actually the majority of the group plays both games.  I run 3.5 and it is a vastly different experience.  The players refer to the rulebooks literally dozens of times in game.  Again, in the game I play in, we've never had to refer to them as Players.It's got nothing to do with the quality of the group.  We could accept 8-year-olds and they would get it and be playing in a matter of minutes.  I would never try that in the game I DM.Yeah, after checking out Breath of Fire, I think D&D could handle it no problem.  After reading all your examples though, I still don't understand why you believe the totality of published material for a game, heck, all games, can somehow be wider in scope than one's own imagination?  Inspirational sources existed for the game before the rules even did.  And all these unique to D&D creatures and spells came from someone's imagination, didn't they?  Why not rely on one's own?  I don't limit my choices to rulebooks.Group genre mix ups?  I mentioned my "Care Bear" house rule above, but it more of a polite social rule.And no one creates or controls my character but me.  No quirks or abilities are defined to me but what I work out with the Ref beforehand.  And odds are determined through play.  My mind doesn't need OOC systems to understand then.  I'm only thinking about the in-game world.As for Refs needing to know the rules and Players relieving that burden, I agree with you.  But it also removes an enormous amount of enjoyability to the game when I have to think in rules just so my DM can run the game properly.  That a rule problem.  Build a better one.I've not once told people how they should play D&D.  I'm simply lamenting the fact that many styles of playing a fun game, my own included, are often marginalized when new editions of games are created.  I am hoping for the best, however.  Neither is D&D a rules heavy game.  Advanced D&D 1-3 are all rules heavy, but previously there were always "core" rules for those who didn't care for all the designer's house rules (now too called "core").Also, and I've been very cordial throughout this thread, more than a few times you have have stated to me what I believe or at at least what I truly believe.  Please stop attributing to me opinions I do not hold.  You are misperceiving me.  I am not implying, saying, or believing your style of game or favorite game suck.  I am disagree with your opinions including many you state as fact.</blockquote>

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