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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Majoru Oakheart" data-source="post: 3773271" data-attributes="member: 5143">There most certainly ARE rules in the real world.  Pick up a physics book and you have a list of many of them right there.  I don't have to KNOW the laws of physics to be affected by them.  I can even know the basics of them without ever having learned about them at all.The idea is that from the time I'm born, I'm learning the "rules" one step at a time.  I learn that when I move in the right way I can stand and walk.  I know that depending on how I throw something, the further it goes and I know about how good I am at aiming at something when I throw it.  I can practice at something and get better at it.I know approximately how heavy rock is and how much of it I can pick up based on my previous experience.  I know that when I get cut I bleed and that getting cut by some things or in some places hurts me more.All of those are "rules".  Whether I think of them as "That can has an ac of 9 and I have +8 to hit and a rock has a range increment of 10 feet so I know I can hit the can with a thrown rock at 10 feet 95% of the time" or "I know I can hit that can over there almost every time with these rocks since I've practiced with them" is fairly irrelevant.  One is just rules speak for the same thing.The real difference comes down to consistency and speed.  If I put a draw a small can on a table on the battlemat and put down my miniature 10 feet away from it then without any input from the DM whatsoever I can assess my chances of hitting it.  I know that Diminutive objects get a bonus to their ac for being small.  I know that inanimate objects aren't moving so have a Dex of 0, making a medium sized object AC 5 to hit.  So I know that the can is around AC 9, so I can figure out (at least close) my chance to hit.  That math is fairly easy for me, so I can do it in a second or two and make up my mind if I want to throw that rock or not.The other way requires me to think "Would my character be good at throwing rocks?  I think so, he probably spent his days sitting by the lake and throwing rocks at the logs in the lake."  So, then I need to ask the DM "How far away is the can?"  The DM tells me "Not too far, around 10 ft."  I think "10 feet?  Well, with how much practice I've had, that should be a piece of cake."  The DM is thinking "I remember trying to throw rocks when I was a kid.  It's HARD, I could never hit anything with them no matter how hard I tried. At 10 feet, it's likely there's only a 10% chance that he could possibly hit it."  So I make the roll, get a 17 and the DM tells me "You miss".  I get completely baffled because in MY mind that was easy.Err...why not?  What if I want to play a game where I'm a powerful archmage?  Would I still not know the "rules of how magic works"?  Why do all games require I start completely incapable of knowing what my own abilities do?  Why would I cast a spell not knowing if it might blow me up instead of what I wanted it to do?So what would be the point of casting Detect Magic if I have no idea what the colors mean?  Also, where did I learn magic from?  Did the person who taught me ever figure out what the colors meant?  If so, what did he say when I asked him?  How long has magic been around?  If it's passed down from person to person did ANY of the people who cast it since the beginning of time ever figure out what the colors meant?If I was told any of this information while I was learning magic, could you tell me what it is now so I can write it down in a list to remind me for later?  Maybe I'll even compile a book of all the information my character knows from his time before the campaign begins.  Then, as I discover new magic and I cast it and see how it works, I'll write the results in the book for later as well.  Maybe I'll call it a Player's Handbook.  That sounds like a good name for it.Sure, they'd understand the CONCEPT easily.  It's the most basic form for make believe that almost everyone does when they are kids.  However, how well it WORKS is dependent on the quality of the group.You would have no fun with me as one of your players.  I would be constantly asking you questions about things that you are POSITIVE are common sense and that I should know.  This is because, in my experience, relying on everyone having the same assumptions never works.For instance, one person will think that a wooden building takes 30 seconds to burn down entirely and another one will think it takes 12 hours because neither of them have actually sat and watched a building burn down.  So they each go to the only points of reference they have.  Player A thinks of that movie he watched where someone had to run out of the building really quickly to avoid the whole place coming down on him.  Player B remembers a movie on fire fighters that had them walking through a building for a couple of hours looking for the point of origin.  Each one is convinced that they are the one that is right.  It is extremely important to the character's life if the roof came down and crushed him before the rest of the group could get there or not.This is why we have rules.  So, when there aren't any, I'd spend all the time in the game asking questions like the above ones on magic.</blockquote>

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