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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 7961227" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>I'm thinking of 3.5 icons (Tordek was the Dwarf Fighter alongside Redgar, but I only remember Jozan for the cleric) and the old arcade games (no idea what their names were, I just remember the guy yelling sticks to snakes) </p><p></p><p>It was only in more recent DnD works that I started seeing Dwarf Clerics becoming more prominent.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Now, this, I'll disagree with you on, but for different reasons. </p><p></p><p>First of all, I do not apply the "faith powers the gods" to old real-world religions. Because I don't care about old real world religions in regards to how I veiw my fantasy world. They are useful for inspiration, but I do not want to ascribe mechanics to them, that just gets messy, </p><p></p><p>Now, the second point. Why do the Deities care about their worshipers? Why would they bless a Temple erected in their name? The "Faith powers the Gods" position provides an answer, because the gods gain a benefit from the people worshiping them. </p><p></p><p>I picture it somewhat like a King and his subjects. The subjects empower the king, without them he has no army, no taxes, no food, ect. Is he still a King without his subjects? Maybe, but he would be a weak king. Now, does that mean that he should demand worship? Not necessarily, to probably misquote a great line "A king does not need to declare himself a king." A proper king does not comman by demands and threats, he commands by the mere fact that he is a king. </p><p></p><p>The Gods should be the same. Yes, they gain benefits from your worship, the harder and more fervently you pray, the more you empower your chosen diety, but that is just the natural course of existence. The Gods do not demand you pray to them, because that would be unbecoming of them. </p><p></p><p>This also has a stealth benefit. It allows for the rise of new gods. In my homebrew I actually have a war leader who ascended to godhood. She swore an oath of Vengeance against Bane, for the war that killed her family. And led a crusade that ended with her fighting the God in one on one combat. She was defeated, but rose again as a deity, because of the faith of her followers. </p><p></p><p>But, without some sort of reason for the Gods to care about mortals... why would they?</p><p></p><p>Edit: It seems your bigger problem is with dieties fighting each other. I mostly removed that by doing two things</p><p></p><p>1) No Evil gods. Being an Evil god doesn't make sense to me. Especially considering we have Archdevils, Demon Princes, and Great Old Ones to fill that space. Why have a God of Brutal Murder when Yeenoghu is right there as a powerful extraplanar force of slaughter? What purpose does it serve to have both?</p><p></p><p>Corollary to 1) The gods work together. They aren't like, the best friend squad, but they have an alliance. Why? Because infinite demons are pouring out of a whole in the world, one of the more powerful beings in existance sacrificed that power to make a sub-reality that is corrupting souls and forming its own power block, and things many times more powerful than them are pressing into the veil of reality to try and devour them all. In fighting is stupid, it will get everyone killed. </p><p></p><p>I actually took this a bit far, to a degree. Asmodeus is really good at making people question if he is evil (like a devil should) and the story of Tharizdun is part of that. Tharizdun was a powerful god, immensely so. He went to fight a Great Old One solo. Drove it off, but it infected him, turned him mad, and filled with a desire to destroy everything. The gods fought him and imprisoned him, but this freaked them out. Fighting the Great Old Ones could lead to them becoming corrupted too, how could they win. </p><p></p><p>So, the next time a Great Old One showed up, they were hesitant, debating how to handle it. Then Asmodeus showed up, and beat and imprisoned it (this was canon in 3.5, can't remember the name of the GOO though. Had a horn and forever regenerated). And he was fine. Stating tht his only goal in creating Baator was to make souls strong enough to stand up to the corruption of the Abberrations, so reality wasn't destroyed.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I've read a few fanfics that include the Warhammer Fantasy gods, seems like a fascinating lore to dive into.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It really would be perfect</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 7961227, member: 6801228"] I'm thinking of 3.5 icons (Tordek was the Dwarf Fighter alongside Redgar, but I only remember Jozan for the cleric) and the old arcade games (no idea what their names were, I just remember the guy yelling sticks to snakes) It was only in more recent DnD works that I started seeing Dwarf Clerics becoming more prominent. Now, this, I'll disagree with you on, but for different reasons. First of all, I do not apply the "faith powers the gods" to old real-world religions. Because I don't care about old real world religions in regards to how I veiw my fantasy world. They are useful for inspiration, but I do not want to ascribe mechanics to them, that just gets messy, Now, the second point. Why do the Deities care about their worshipers? Why would they bless a Temple erected in their name? The "Faith powers the Gods" position provides an answer, because the gods gain a benefit from the people worshiping them. I picture it somewhat like a King and his subjects. The subjects empower the king, without them he has no army, no taxes, no food, ect. Is he still a King without his subjects? Maybe, but he would be a weak king. Now, does that mean that he should demand worship? Not necessarily, to probably misquote a great line "A king does not need to declare himself a king." A proper king does not comman by demands and threats, he commands by the mere fact that he is a king. The Gods should be the same. Yes, they gain benefits from your worship, the harder and more fervently you pray, the more you empower your chosen diety, but that is just the natural course of existence. The Gods do not demand you pray to them, because that would be unbecoming of them. This also has a stealth benefit. It allows for the rise of new gods. In my homebrew I actually have a war leader who ascended to godhood. She swore an oath of Vengeance against Bane, for the war that killed her family. And led a crusade that ended with her fighting the God in one on one combat. She was defeated, but rose again as a deity, because of the faith of her followers. But, without some sort of reason for the Gods to care about mortals... why would they? Edit: It seems your bigger problem is with dieties fighting each other. I mostly removed that by doing two things 1) No Evil gods. Being an Evil god doesn't make sense to me. Especially considering we have Archdevils, Demon Princes, and Great Old Ones to fill that space. Why have a God of Brutal Murder when Yeenoghu is right there as a powerful extraplanar force of slaughter? What purpose does it serve to have both? Corollary to 1) The gods work together. They aren't like, the best friend squad, but they have an alliance. Why? Because infinite demons are pouring out of a whole in the world, one of the more powerful beings in existance sacrificed that power to make a sub-reality that is corrupting souls and forming its own power block, and things many times more powerful than them are pressing into the veil of reality to try and devour them all. In fighting is stupid, it will get everyone killed. I actually took this a bit far, to a degree. Asmodeus is really good at making people question if he is evil (like a devil should) and the story of Tharizdun is part of that. Tharizdun was a powerful god, immensely so. He went to fight a Great Old One solo. Drove it off, but it infected him, turned him mad, and filled with a desire to destroy everything. The gods fought him and imprisoned him, but this freaked them out. Fighting the Great Old Ones could lead to them becoming corrupted too, how could they win. So, the next time a Great Old One showed up, they were hesitant, debating how to handle it. Then Asmodeus showed up, and beat and imprisoned it (this was canon in 3.5, can't remember the name of the GOO though. Had a horn and forever regenerated). And he was fine. Stating tht his only goal in creating Baator was to make souls strong enough to stand up to the corruption of the Abberrations, so reality wasn't destroyed. I've read a few fanfics that include the Warhammer Fantasy gods, seems like a fascinating lore to dive into. It really would be perfect [/QUOTE]
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