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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Carnifex" data-source="post: 180208" data-attributes="member: 227">2 points from me on this one:1)Most RPG'ers I know did not begin on D&D, but rather on GURPS, Champions, Paranoia, Feng Shui, Call of Cthulu, or the White Wolf games. Or even them Fighting Fantasy game books <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> I managed to convince a good number to try 2e because they all knew I was probably the best DM there. Sure, it had rules problems, but it was largely nice and simple, with a number of Monte's points meanign that people *liked* it. In addition, the point brough up in this thread about the appeal of a fantasy game was present. My Planescape campaign cemented the appeal of D&D, and the advent of the (IMHO) truly excellent 3e means that D&D is now the primary game. It wasn't before.2) I think it was mmadson (I could be wrong) who stated earlier in the thread that once we all accept that people want fights lasting three or four rounds, then it'll be okay. I disagree. I don't always want fights lasting that long. I especially don't want fights lasting that long because the players just got sliced up by a bunch of mooks I sent at them early on in an adventure. When it comes to the toe-to-toe battles against elite cambion knights or evil wizards of a dark organisations, I *want* long battles. The fighter trading blows with his leering demonic foe, both covered in dozens of gashes pouring out blood or ichor but still, still fighting on to the bitter end. The huge mage battle as both sides blanket each other with area affect spells, and even then the archmage comes striding out of the inferno, slightly singed but very, very irritated, to blast his opponents with some incredibly impressive pyrotechnic uber-spell.That is what I call fun, and I have to say that even when as a DM the players wipe one of my treasrued villains off the face of the planet, I really don't care of it was a good, epic, cinematic, fun battle. If Kilshanor, Baatorian archmage of the City of Splinters, had been cut down by two swrod-strikes and a spray of magic missiles from the sorcerer, I'd have been a bit disappointed.Which brings up the fact that magic missiles would suddenly become very powerful in a high AC, low hp setting.</blockquote>

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