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<blockquote data-quote="Victim" data-source="post: 180320" data-attributes="member: 78"><p>As if they weren't powerful now. The wizard and sorcerer in our group almost never got a chance to fireball/lightning bolt anything until we started using a battlematt. Even with attacks consisting almost entirely of magic missiles, they still dished out a fiar share of damage from levels 6 to 8 with them. </p><p></p><p>If 7th level characters are doing their fair share of offense by chain casting a 1st level spell, it's probably already too powerful.</p><p></p><p>Of course, mmadsen already recognized the need to rework most of the spells. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think doing that throws the baby out with the bathwater (OMG, did I just write that?). First of all, I don't agree that lots HP means immune to all damage. Second, I like the chance for impossible things to happen. As a player, I like to throw DMs for a bit of loop. I seek to prevent villains from escaping, even if they're supposed to get away. I've done crazy things with a wizard to keep a foe from escaping. I've figured out plans that render my character almost invulnerable to the big bosses attacks - because of a lucky guess mostly, and only for 1 min/level at most. I like the impossible critical hits that fell supposedly long term villains. I don't expect the DM to fudge die rolls when a hasted wizard drops a double barreled disentegration (DC 23, twice) against an undead boss with a +5 Fort save, and I don't expect him to fudge to save our characters either. I'd rather trust in Deathward or Contigencies than in someone else's sense of what makes a good game and their ignoring of reason because of it. Nothing keeps the NPCs from using the same defenses we do. When there's so many ways to die from bad luck, there's no reason the enemies shouldn't operate in groups instead of having one big uber-boss so that any one guy getting killed doesn't screw up the whole plan and so the one guy left can grab some bodies and make a brake for it with teleport. Most of my characters set out do the impossible: even if it wouldn't make the best novel, it makes for a hell of game.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>AC is the easy stuff. It take care of the shots that bounce off your armor, the wild misses, the times when all you need to do is tilt your your head back a bit and let the breeze from your opponent's sword cool your face.</p><p></p><p>HP is the hard stuff, the things that you need to push yourself to do. The neophyte fighter sucks it up and grits his teeth as that goblin blade slides along his arm. It's not a grave wound, but it hurts - he wants to cry, to sit down and wrap it with bandages, to run home since he's not cut out for this dangerous life - but he keeps on fighting. Boromir takes an arrow to the heart - instead of falling down and dieing, he decides that it's not his yet so he keeps fighting. Sure, unless someone else finishes him or his friends arrive witht quasi magical healing, his time will come in 5 minutes regardless of how he pushes himself, but he thinks maybe he can kill the orcs before they get his friends first, even if it rips his open even worse. HP. When the duelist is fighting 5 guys, and they launch a coordinated attack, swords are everywhere. High, low, middle; there's no way to block and dodge them all, it's impossible. Then he does anyway. HP.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Victim, post: 180320, member: 78"] As if they weren't powerful now. The wizard and sorcerer in our group almost never got a chance to fireball/lightning bolt anything until we started using a battlematt. Even with attacks consisting almost entirely of magic missiles, they still dished out a fiar share of damage from levels 6 to 8 with them. If 7th level characters are doing their fair share of offense by chain casting a 1st level spell, it's probably already too powerful. Of course, mmadsen already recognized the need to rework most of the spells. [b][/b] I think doing that throws the baby out with the bathwater (OMG, did I just write that?). First of all, I don't agree that lots HP means immune to all damage. Second, I like the chance for impossible things to happen. As a player, I like to throw DMs for a bit of loop. I seek to prevent villains from escaping, even if they're supposed to get away. I've done crazy things with a wizard to keep a foe from escaping. I've figured out plans that render my character almost invulnerable to the big bosses attacks - because of a lucky guess mostly, and only for 1 min/level at most. I like the impossible critical hits that fell supposedly long term villains. I don't expect the DM to fudge die rolls when a hasted wizard drops a double barreled disentegration (DC 23, twice) against an undead boss with a +5 Fort save, and I don't expect him to fudge to save our characters either. I'd rather trust in Deathward or Contigencies than in someone else's sense of what makes a good game and their ignoring of reason because of it. Nothing keeps the NPCs from using the same defenses we do. When there's so many ways to die from bad luck, there's no reason the enemies shouldn't operate in groups instead of having one big uber-boss so that any one guy getting killed doesn't screw up the whole plan and so the one guy left can grab some bodies and make a brake for it with teleport. Most of my characters set out do the impossible: even if it wouldn't make the best novel, it makes for a hell of game. [b][/b] AC is the easy stuff. It take care of the shots that bounce off your armor, the wild misses, the times when all you need to do is tilt your your head back a bit and let the breeze from your opponent's sword cool your face. HP is the hard stuff, the things that you need to push yourself to do. The neophyte fighter sucks it up and grits his teeth as that goblin blade slides along his arm. It's not a grave wound, but it hurts - he wants to cry, to sit down and wrap it with bandages, to run home since he's not cut out for this dangerous life - but he keeps on fighting. Boromir takes an arrow to the heart - instead of falling down and dieing, he decides that it's not his yet so he keeps fighting. Sure, unless someone else finishes him or his friends arrive witht quasi magical healing, his time will come in 5 minutes regardless of how he pushes himself, but he thinks maybe he can kill the orcs before they get his friends first, even if it rips his open even worse. HP. When the duelist is fighting 5 guys, and they launch a coordinated attack, swords are everywhere. High, low, middle; there's no way to block and dodge them all, it's impossible. Then he does anyway. HP. [/QUOTE]
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