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Message: <blockquote data-quote="mmadsen" data-source="post: 180458" data-attributes="member: 1645">I'm more than a bit perplexed by people's reactions to my statement that people enjoy combats that last three or four hits (per combatant, on the receiving end).  Carnifex said, "Maybe you do, but I have seen no evidence in other players... that this is something that 'people want'," and hong simply declared it "A meaningless statement."I get the feeling no one read my lengthy post on Hit Point Scaling -- or it was terribly unclear.I say that people want fights to last for three or four hits because that's how long D&D fights currently last (between well-matched opponents), and people seem to like D&D as it stands; any suggested change meets with stiff resistance.To support my point that fights last for three or four hits (per combatant), I trot out some numbers:If we look at typical monsters along the power spectrum, we see that the damage they deal out increases to match the high Hit Points of high-level characters. This should surprise no one. CR-1/4 Goblins deal out 1d8-1; CR-1 Gnolls deal out 1d8+2; CR-2 Ogres deal out 2d6+7; CR-7 Hill Giants deal out 2d6+10; CR-10 Fire Giants deal out 2d8+15. At every level, the opposition does enough damage to hurt the heroes and kill them in, say, three or four blows -- whether those are 7-point blows against a low-level Fighter or 24-point blows against a 10th-level Fighter. Monsters (and Wizards) mete out more damage as levels progress.  Fighters need more attacks to keep up, since their mundane weapons don't progress in damage quite as quickly.In a fight between two "textbook" 10th-level Fighters (AC 24, hp 79, bastard sword: +15/+10, 1d10+6), they hit quite often: +15 vs. AC 24 hits on a natural 9 or higher (60% of the time), and +10 vs. AC 24 hits on a natural 14 or higher (35% of the time).That averages to almost one hit per round, for 11.5 points per hit, meaning fights last for about eight hits, taking about eight rounds, even with low-damage sword attacks against high-hp Fighters.  If we reduced Hit Points and increased AC, they could easily spend eight rounds landing, say, four hits, and those four hits could be lethal.  (And that would be in line with many Fighter-vs.-monster fights.)Which brings us to hong's point: "If it really is possible to tweak a low-hp system so that it functions exactly like a high-hp system, then there's no point to doing it."What I'm trying to demonstrate is that it's possible to tweak a low-hp system so that it's just as heroic and simple-to-use as D&D's higher-hp system -- and such a lower-hp, higher-AC system avoids the inconsistencies of "missed me" hits, non-damage that needs healing, etc., and keeps masses of mundane attacks at least plausible.</blockquote>

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