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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mythmere1" data-source="post: 2102966" data-attributes="member: 26563">First, let me apologize if the tone sounded haughty; it wasn't intended to.Second, I think what I mean by the "ghost in the machine" is more fundamental than what you mean.  All I mean is that there's a difference - caused by the overall system - which creates a "feel" of play.  By feel of play, I mean things like pacing, cinematic feel, less rules-looking-up, etc. - exactly what you're trying to find out about these two systems relative to each other.  I was taking exception to highly specific discussions of rules, like whether it kills a system to have feats or different xp for leveling up in different classes.  These have value, but they aren't the whole story - that's what I was trying to get at.As I said above, I think we're on the same page, here.  When I mentioned "romantic" and "grim," I wasn't trying to make my own characterization of these games - I've read the free stuff on BR and nothing on GT other than threads.  What I was getting at was that OTHER people have tagged these games with adjectives that (rightly or wrongly) address the feel of the game rather than the rules.  It tells me lots more to hear this sort of genre-adjective than to hear about specific rules.As mentioned, I don't think that's missing the point - I think that's nailing the point.  The "ghost in the machine" is about the whole rules picture and how it affects the game.  When you mention that a system is a tool, I think that presumes a viewpoint that it's the system as a whole that affects storytelling and refereeing, not the minutiae.  I might be projecting this onto what you said, but it's how I read it.As I said, sorry about that - not intentional.  I come across that way sometimes when I don't mean to.Edit: when I said "missing the point," I should have said, "missing the point as far as I'm concerned."  That error changed a discussion about what I feel is important into what sounded like a lecture.  My bad.</blockquote>

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