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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6682740" data-attributes="member: 4937">Sure, and a properly built 1e/3e party of 1st level characters can probably kite an Ankylosaurus successfully on horseback as well, particularly if the encounter occurs in open terrain.  But in my experience, that degree of mobility is rare and requires an agreement to coordinate strategies by the players involved in the same way a stealth based party requires.However, kiting a foe on the ground in 3e is extremely difficult, because even if you are capable of double moving and making a ranged attack faster than the monster can charge, the Aklyosaurus I've described has a counter - take the run action, overrun, and use the Trample extraordinary ability.  This means you need to be able to move 120' and attack to avoid overrun while still threatening the foe.  Not many characters can do that.  Even without the Trample ability I've written here, taking the run action to overrun a foe still allows a large sized creature to build an area of threat around a foe that prevents them from moving without taking an AoO.I'm not that familiar with 5e, but if anyone is on the ground I would presume similar strategies are available that allow you to move more than your usual rate and still attack.  If not and kiting is really as simple as you claim, this is an even bigger blindness to the capabilities of PC's than is present in 3e and as a 5e DM you should move to correct the oversight. If the whole party isn't flying, presumably the monster can still give chase successfully.  So long as the monster can threaten even 1 PC, he threatens the whole party.   Indeed, since the isolated PC now is subject to all the punishment, the threat may go up if everyone decides to evade other than the one dwarf fighter in heavy armor that can't fly.  In general, kiting a foe is only viable if everyone can.  Otherwise, it's a only strategy that glass cannons can use to stay off the front lines.  Yes, a flying party member maybe can solo non-flying creatures.  But just as a stealth based character can evade them, this doesn't help much unless everyone can.   It's viable for a party to go all in on a complimentary strategy, but in my experience its rare and if the game is balanced and there is no one best strategy for every foe presumably it works out in the long run.In any event, even if you are correct in your assessment, it doesn't change my overall thesis, which is that neither the 'big bag of hit points' nor the 'glass cannon' strategy is sufficient if you want to challenge high level PC's successfully and that too many monsters of every edition are poorly designed for providing a challenge given the capabilities available to PC's.</blockquote>

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