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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6683136" data-attributes="member: 4937">[MENTION=6787650]Hemlock[/MENTION]: You may be the first person who is really depressing me about 5e.  I mean, I already though the 5e MM was far and away the worst of the core 3 books, but... yeah, maybe it's just as well I'm only 2/3rds of the way through a 10 year campaign in 3.X rules.Both will likely run out of ammunition long before they do significant damage to a 3e Anklysaurus, much less under my 3.0 house rules.  Double moving they have a -4 to hit penalty with missile from horseback and -8 to hit if they have to have the mount run to obtain distance, against a target that has AC 22 RAW (and 26 versus ranged attacks if using my variant).  Throw in the wizard with a -4 penalty with the longbow, and you are talking effectively a 34 AC.  One shot in 20 is going to hit.  The wizard is going to need to expend like 250 arrows chasing this thing around and running from it (and more like 350 if using my house rules).  The javelin armed barbarian on a mount at close range is probably not much better off in terms of chances to hit (maybe +10 to hit bonus), and no one carries around more than 6 or so javelins.   Once you are out of ammo, you are no longer kiting, you are running away with style.  Personally, I'm all for monsters like oozes and zombies being kited as an effective strategy.  I'm all for players building characters with kiting as a strength and focus of play.  But if it is trivially easy, then it trivializes the game.Plus, if they insisted on kiting the thing through a typical jungle environment, I'd move to more of a chase style simulation, and insist on ride checks to stay in control of the mount, jump roots and gullies, and reflex saves to dodge low hanging branches and other potential obstacles.   This chase after all could easily last a mile or more.As for gods destroying dramatic tension, I never noticed that impact on the Iliad or the Odyssey or on the tale of Theseus or Perseus - nor my own games for that matter, where the background presence of the meddlesome gods adds I think considerable epic scope and drama.  There is nothing drama destroying about sailing through a divine hurricane while a 120' tall giant crowned in lightning bolts summons waves to try to wreck you.  As for high level NPCs, I'm inclined to agree but it was the PC's I was most thinking of.I've never had a problem make the human armies suitably believably butt kicking so that you wonder how they stay alive.  I don't have a lot of high level NPC's, but I don't have armies of 0th level fighters either.As for vampires, they are fairly helpless during the day and low level vampire spawns are a lot bigger of a problem when you have no gods and so no clerics.  There are plenty of temples with dedicated wings of undead hunters to make sure that doesn't happen, and its just a lot easier for a vampire to stay alive if they remain more covert.  Otherwise, you end up with a tidal wave of paladins and other church assets.  Vampire Spawn after all rise 1d4 days after a burial - assuming they weren't beheaded and had there mouth stuffed with holy wafers or any number of other "we aren't stupid, we know vampires are real" precautions.Likewise, I've never understood how anyone thought it reasonable for a planar invasion - like say Slaad - to happen and not assume that there can't be Planar invasions of Archons or Eladrin as well.  Of course the mightier sort of planar beings are generally vastly more powerful than the inhabitants of the mortal world, but if one of these beings can meddle about on the prime I see no reason why they all can't.  As such, Slaad, Modrons, Demons, Devils, Archons, and Eladrin would seem to keep each other in check.   Otherwise, if you think that it's simply a matter of devils can't invade because humans would kick them out instead of some sort of cosmic balance, just how do you explain what the humans are supposed to do against 180,000 devils that can also use ranged weapons as well as fireballs and so forth?  Besides which, I resist the notion that Slaad are evil beings that would want to destroy the world anyway, and I resist the reskinning of Death Slaad as CE.</blockquote>

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