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Message: <blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8871778" data-attributes="member: 93670">on the simultaneous "too specific, and not specific enough" saves look at rock paper scissors compared to the <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5Q6-wMx-K8" target="_blank">pointless memeworthy version</a>  with extra choices that don't really matter. One is a "game" played for thousands of years in place of dice or coinflips, the other is a confusing mess trying to add a few pointless options that provide an illusion of depth to what is still a one dimensional game of chance.[spoiler="2e* had 5 saves"] Save vs. Paralyzation, Poison, and Death Magic: This isused whenever a character is affected by a paralyzing attack(regardless of source), poison (of any strength), or certainspells and magical items that otherwise kill the character out-right (as listed in their descriptions). This saving throw canalso be used in situations in which exceptional force of will orphysical fortitude are needed. Save vs. Rod, Staff, or Wand: As its name implies, this isused whenever a character is affected by the powers of a rod,staff, or wand, provided another save of higher priority isn’tcalled for. This saving throw is sometimes specified for situa-tions in which a character faces a magical attack from anunusual source. Save vs. Petrification or Polymorph: This is used anytime a character is turned to stone (petrified) or polymorphedby a monster, spell, or magical item (other than a wand). Itcan also be used when the character must withstand somemassive physical alteration of his entire body. Save vs. Breath Weapon: A character uses this savewhen facing monsters with breath weapons, particularly thepowerful blast of a dragon. This save can also be used insituations where a combination of physical stamina and Dex-terity are critical factors in survival. Save vs. Spell: This is used whenever a character attemptsto resist the effects of a magical attack, either by a spellcasteror from a magical item, provided no other type of savingthrow is specified. This save can also be used to resist anattack that defies any other classification.[/spoiler]They were reasonably specific & viscerally different.  3.x decided that five was overly granular with too much dithering whebever an edge case came up & scaled that back[spoiler="There were three in 3.x"]Reflex saving throws, for avoiding fireballs and other attacks that you can escape by moving quickly.Fortitude saving throws, for resisting poison and similar threats.Will saving throws (for negating the effect of charm person and other spells).[/spoiler]Those were good solid broad brush catchalls that worked well for deciding if a creature succeeds or fails against this thing & they did it with enough distinction between their own niche to avoid arguments dithering over which applies.  For edge cases there were specific skills like concentration spot/listen/hide/move silent  ac/touchac & so on with all of those being specific things that are hard to say they should be transposed for <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi-jYHlKCAk" target="_blank">reasons that totally aren't just because the creature making the roll has a better bonus to one</a>.5e splits the baby & takes the worst of all three by having six broad catchall saves that fail at being clear catchalls while also failing at being specific enough to be the clear choice for edge cases,*I'm omitting 1e because I'm not sure if it's different & by how much if so</blockquote>

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